*metalskin puts his fingers in his ears and chants...*
I'm not listening
I'm not listening
I'm not listening
.
.
.
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*metalskin puts his fingers in his ears and chants...*
I'm not listening
I'm not listening
I'm not listening
.
.
.
*Runs away from thread*
nobody Said Anything bout im saying that becuase im a Muslim .. its Called LOGIC .. why there are Christians that Convert .. werent they Christians at 1st !! they didnt say "o ur muslim and etc." which is a stupid Excuse ... but im not telling u to Convert ! there is Something Called LOGIC !Quote:
You saying Jesus is not God's Son because ur a muslim, you dont understand because your not of the same Faith. You have no idea about Christianity, why? Because ur a muslim and have ur views about God and have a completely different perspective compared to mine. Theres no point going any further because I will not convert or choose to even think about thinking otherwise biggrin.gif Thanks anyway but I will not read anymore of ur stupid 'proof's.
Ellusionist, I think the point he is trying to make is that his beleif system provides logic within the scope of his faith to explain the virgin birth, the concept of God having a son, etc...
But because your comming from the Muslim background, to you the concepts you have expressed as illogical are illogical because of your point of reference.
Me personaly? I think that if you beleive in a god who you claim that is Omnipotent (which means can do anything) then the claims in that religion are possible.
Your just using your perspective to call the Christain religion illogical. I could as easily call facets of your religion illogical based on my point of view, but I refrain from that because your religion provides faith based reasoning as to why its possible. For exmaple, why would God wait sooo many centuries before deciding to send an angel to Mohummad and start telling him all the stuff that became your relugious texts? why didn't he do it right back at the start? or why doens't he do it again now?
Now I know you have a faith based logic to explain all that, but to a person who required proof, it doesn't sound convincing. You are being very closed minded to point the finger at him, when people can point the finger straight back at you.
I know you wont agree on this point, but I do wish you would read carefuly what I have written and have a long think about it before rushing to post.
You'll get more respect if you respect other peoples beleif's and opinions. Doesn't mean you have to agree with them, but you should respect them.
Then why do u think many Christians Convert .. if u think what u say is Right ! ? if u think what u say is right .. than there wouldnt be any Christian until now converted to islam ... ! be more logical plz thats not an excuse !
u can compare the 2 Religions and there is nothing wrong with that .. and try to see which one is logical !
but without searching .. or comparing .. u just gonna say the same thing over and over ..
Thats All i can Say:Quote:
*metalskin puts his fingers in his ears and chants...*
I'm not listening
I'm not listening
I'm not listening
.
Quran:
"And every time I have called to them, that Thou mightest forgive them, they have (only) thrust their fingers into their ears, covered themselves up with their garments, grown obstinate, and given themselves up to arrogance." 071.007
conversion from one religion to another is a personal choice. often it is not a mater of logic, but a personal choice based more on emotion or feelings, not on logic.
Also I don't beleive that Islam is the fastest growing religion. Obviously we are talking conversions, not via organic growth (being born into the religion). Wicca is the fastest growing beleif system in America from what I have read.
If you merge all the christain based religions then in the western world, the christain religion is the fastest growing religion. This includes Baptists, AOG, Pentocostal (independant), Jehovah Witnesses, etc.
But again, without some senses data, its a hard claim to prove. i can find the sensus data for australia, but dont know where it is for america.
Dont try and use the numbers game or quote people who decided to change as a reason to change. As I haev said previously, give me evidence as to why your flavour of religion is any more logical or factual.
And so far you have failed to do this.
Note that in most western societies, its the christain based religions that actualy door knock and perform a hell of a lot of outreach trying to get new converts. as anyone in sales will tell you, this will always increase your market share.
i told u Islam is not Based on Emotions !! ..u and ur Emotions things again .. ...Quote:
conversion from one religion to another is a personal choice. often it is not a mater of logic, but a personal choice based more on emotion or feelings, not on logic.
so ur saying that u have no emotions .. thats why u dont believe in God .. lol
what kind of evidence u want i put everything forth if u want ill bring u more !Quote:
give me evidence as to why your flavour of religion is any more logical or factual
Ellusionist, insults and casting aspergions will not endear you to anyone.
If we are talking logic, then why do you try and say that because so many people are converting to Islam then everyone should, because to your logic the masses are right?
Well in australia its actualy Buddhism, at a 41.9 percent increase. This is followed by Islam at a 40.2 and then not stated at 36.3. Other religions have grown by 34.6, which will include wican.
Buddhism increased from 199000 to 357000, while 200000 to 281000 in the period. non stated increased from 1.6 million to 2.1 million.
So based on your logic I should either become a Buddhist, or a Non stated. Buddhist increased the most on percentages, while non stated increased the most on numbers alone. And then currently 68% of the Australian community considers themselves to be a Christain, so that even complicates the issue more.
I'm sorry mate, but just the concept of using a majority or using the % growth as a logical argument for choosing a religion is to me totaly illogical.
Otherwise based on that logic, everyone should have taken acid and soked pot during the late 60's and early 70's cause it had the biggest growth % wise of any sub culture.
who Said anything about Majority !! .. u said that ... because he's christian so his point of view is diff .. so if every Christian thinks like that .. then how come there is Christians converting to Islam !!
u know why i tell u why its not based on Damn Emotions .. its because they r searching .. they think that there religion dont make sense thats why they search bout islam .. and read bout .. and so on .. !!
I'm sorry Ellusionist, but I have decided not to attempt to continue this discussion because you continaly do not read what people post and you are too free with insults.
Arrogancy and insults continue to flow from you. I just hope that your not a reflection of Muslims. However I know that my experiance with you will most prob. influence my perceptions of the Muslim faith.
If your a representation of what it is like to be a Muslim I wouldn't wish to have anything to do with your religion.
Adios.
i think becuase u dont have anything to say .. i didnt insult u or anything .. so dont blame me .. if u dont have an answer.
P.S: i read every post ...!
Adios lol :
Here is Another Proof ... And i hope u wont Say again .. oh Thats from the Muslims Point of View becuase its NOT !!
Who Invented The Trinity?
The three monotheistic religions Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all purport to share one fundamental concept: belief in God as the Supreme Being, the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. Known as "tawhid" in Islam, this concept of the Oneness of God was stressed by Moses in a Biblical passage known as the "Shema", or the Jewish creed of faith: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." (Deuteronomy 6:4)
It was repeated word-for-word approximately 1500 years later by Jesus when he said "...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29)
Muhammad came along approximately 600 years later, bringing the same message again: "And your God is One God: there is no God but He..." (The Qur'an 2:163).
Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God, however, into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during the fourth century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of controversy both within and outside the Christian religion, is known as the Doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity states that God is the union of three divine persons the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in one divine being.
If that concept, put in basic terms, sounds confusing, the flowery language in the actual text of the doctrine lends even more mystery to the matter:
"...we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity... for there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all one... they are not three gods, but one God... the whole three persons are co-eternal and co-equal... he therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity..." (excerpts from the Athanasian Creed).
Let's put this together in a different form: one person, God the Father, plus one person, God the Son, plus one person, God the Holy Ghost, equals one person, God the What? Is this English or is this gibberish?
It is said that Athanasius, the bishop who formulated this doctrine, confessed that the more he wrote on the matter, the less capable he was of clearly expressing his thoughts regarding it.
How did such a confusing doctrine get its start?
Trinity in the Bible
References in the Bible to a Trinity of divine beings are vague, at best.
In Matthew 28:19, we find Jesus telling his disciples to go out and preach to all nations. While this "Great Commission" does make mention of the three persons who later become components of the Trinity, the phrase "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" is quite clearly an addition to Biblical text that is, not the actual words of Jesus as can be seen by two factors:
1) baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done only in the name of Jesus; and
2) the "Great Commission" was found in the first gospel written, that of Mark, bears no mention of Father, Son and/or Holy Ghost see Mark 16:15.
The only other reference in the Bible to a Trinity can be found in the Epistle of 1 John 5:7. Biblical scholars of today, however, have admitted that the phrase "... there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" is definitely a "later addition" to Biblical text, and it is not found in any of today's versions of the Bible.
It can, therefore, be seen that the concept of a Trinity of divine beings was not an idea put forth by Jesus or any other prophet of God. This doctrine, now subscribed to by Christians all over the world, is entirely man-made in origin.
The Doctrine Takes Shape
While Paul of Tarsus, the man who could rightfully be considered the true founder of Christianity, did formulate many of its doctrines, that of the Trinity was not among them. He did, however, lay the groundwork for such when he put forth the idea of Jesus being a "divine Son". After all, a Son does need a Father, and what about a vehicle for God's revelations to man? In essence, Paul named the principal players, but it was the later Church people who put the matter together.
Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third-century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word "Trinity" when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father.
A Formal Doctrine Is Drawn Up
When controversy over the matter of the Trinity blew up in 318 between two church men from Alexandria Arius, the deacon, and Alexander, his bishop Emperor Constantine stepped into the fray.
Although Christian dogma was a complete mystery to him, he did realize that a unified church was necessary for a strong kingdom. When negotiation failed to settle the dispute, Constantine called for the first ecumenical council in Church history in order to settle the matter once and for all.
Six weeks after the 300 bishops first gathered at Nicea in 325, the doctrine of the Trinity was hammered out. The God of the Christians was now seen as having three essences, or natures, in the form of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
The Church Puts Its Foot Down
The matter was far from settled, however, despite high hopes for such on the part of Constantine. Arius and the new bishop of Alexandria, a man named Athanasius, began arguing over the matter even as the Nicene Creed was being signed; "Arianism" became a catch-word from that time onward for anyone who didn't hold to the doctrine of the Trinity.
It wasn't until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval of the Pope, the Nicene/Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative. Debate on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the Trinity was now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that ranged from mutilation to death. Christians now turned on Christians, maiming and slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion.
Debate Continues
Brutal punishments and even death did not stop the controversy over the doctrine of the Trinity, however, and the said controversy continues even today.
The majority of Christians, when asked to explain this fundamental doctrine of their faith, can offer nothing more than "I believe it because I was told to do so." It is explained away as "mystery" yet the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 14:33 that "... God is not the author of confusion ..."
The Unitarian denomination of Christianity has kept alive the teachings of Arius in saying that God is one; they do not believe in the Trinity. As a result, mainstream Christians abhor them, and the National Council of Churches has refused their admittance. In Unitarianism, the hope is kept alive that Christians will someday return to the preachings of Jesus: "... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve." (Luke 4:8)
Islam and the Matter of the Trinity
While Christianity may have a problem defining the essence of God, such is not the case in Islam:
"They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One God" (Qur'an 5:73).
It is worth noting that the Arabic language Bible uses the name "Allah" as the name of God.
Suzanne Haneef, in her book What Everyone Should Know About Islam and Muslims (Library of Islam, 1985), puts the matter quite succinctly when she says,
"But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into three thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses three parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being which God is and which Christianity professes to believe in." (pp. 183-184)
Looking at it from another angle, the Trinity designates God as being three separate entities the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If God is the Father and also the Son, He would then be the Father of Himself because He is His own Son. This is not exactly logical.
Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however, has as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of the Trinity God being Three-in-One is seen by Islam as a form of polytheism. Christians don't revere just One God, they revere three.
This is a charge not taken lightly by Christians, however. They, in turn, accuse the Muslims of not even knowing what the Trinity is, pointing out that the Qur'an sets it up as Allah the Father, Jesus the Son, and Mary his mother. While veneration of Mary has been a figment of the Catholic Church since 431 when she was given the title "Mother of God" by the Council of Ephesus, a closer examination of the verses in the Qur'an most often cited by Christians in support of their accusation, shows that the designation of Mary by the Qur'an as a "member" of the Trinity, is simply not true.
While the Qur'an does condemn both trinitarianism (the Qur'an 4:171; 5:73) and the worship of Jesus and his mother Mary (the Qur'an 5:116), nowhere does it identify the actual three components of the Christian Trinity. The position of the Qur'an is that WHO or WHAT comprises this doctrine is not important; what is important is that the very notion of a Trinity is an affront against the concept of One God.
In conclusion, we see that the doctrine of the Trinity is a concept conceived entirely by man; there is no sanction whatsoever from God to be found regarding the matter simply because the whole idea of a Trinity of divine beings has no place in monotheism. In the Qur'an, God's Final Revelation to mankind, we find His stand quite clearly stated in a number of eloquent passages,
"... your God is One God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner." (the Qur'an 18:110)
"... take not, with God, another object of worship, lest you should be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected." (the Qur'an 17:39)
because, as God tells us over and over again in a Message that is echoed throughout ALL His Revealed Scriptures,
"... I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore, serve Me (and no other) ..." (the Qur'an 21:92)
Ellosionist,
you obviously know your religion. for that: respect! truly, it's important to know your cultural and historal history.
I am far from religious, but I very much see the importance of history,
~because history always repeats itself... ~ (sometimes also because it's fun to laugh with mistakes of the past, the obvious stupidities, and the gory bloodshed stories :P)
As you have put it very well : the message mohammed the prophet carried was very much same message his predecessors of other faiths carried. I'm not going to whine about how violent his rulership was, and violent it was, for he was a soldier (and concquered mekka in 630ac after he had fled from it in 622 for fear of imprisonement.), because christianity was no saint either during the conquistadores.
the islam as well as christianity, as well as all other religions changed over time, vanished, died out, or rose up again as the tides of the ocean inevitable do...
Christianity took upon itself the idea of the holy trinity in western europe because the celts held a very strong bond with their three gods. Christiany realised this, and simply made their religion somewhat more compatible to appeas the meek horde of followers...
In hebrew, the name of the lord could never be spoken out loud, so they divised a name in wich they omitted the vowels : Jhw--> spoken: "Jahwe"
Later on, this was translated to greek and then to latin and so on... during the translation of the hebrew however, someone made a mistranslation in one of the copies, and we ended up with the Jehova witnesses...
My question for you is then: How can you speak of a true faith, or believe that you are believing the right religion. isn't it very well possible that the True religion, wathever is may have been, died out already, or changed beyond recognision ?
More importantly, and this is what I really find the most important ever:
have you ever heard of the term "glossa marginale"
It means : a connotation in the marge.
In more ancient times, when no faxes, printers, pc's or other truly devine methods were available( :P just kidding), all copies were made by hand.
Off course, mistakes were made, and corrected in the marge.
But worse, some clerks/monks/dignitaries felt smart and added their own opinions/comments in the marge.
---> the person who was to make the next copy of their works in turn, would see these as corrections, or passages the author had forgotten and adds them in the text...
In this way, all books have changed considerably! For instance: Ceasars De Bello Gallico is filled with repetitions of earlier stated phrases, clearly in more recent, less correct latin (wich has been called ChurchLatin :P )
The point? I read you make quotes out of the bible and the qu'ran,
but these books do NOT represent the devine!
they represent the people that wrote them, who were just as us, only people...
worse: the were people of lesser intelligence, as we can all say knowledge has increases lately.
You want to honor a devine being in wich you believe? very well, here's the way to do it: Think for yourself, know yourself, be "Tamim" and "Asjre" as they said in hebrew.
In harmony with your own concience and affectionate towards all.
(i did not set out to flame religion, i have the deepest respect for every persons conviction, but in terms of historical evolution, it's all just a big joke... )
PS: LOGIC has nothing to do with it... it never has and prolly never will actually...:P
True True .. but our prophet miracle was only that the Quran would be protected and wouldnt be interpretated on the next generation .... thats why the Quran came to correct the interpretation that happened to the books before it .. :)Quote:
---> the person who was to make the next copy of their works in turn, would see these as corrections, or passages the author had forgotten and adds them in the text...
In this way, all books have changed considerably! For instance: Ceasars De Bello Gallico is filled with repetitions of earlier stated phrases, clearly in more recent, less correct latin (wich has been called ChurchLatin tongue.gif )
The point? I read you make quotes out of the bible and the qu'ran,
but these books do NOT represent the devine!
they represent the people that wrote them, who were just as us, only people...
worse: the were people of lesser intelligence, as we can all say knowledge has increases lately.
and u can see that by ... the old books have many Versions .. but the Quran is only one Version .. :`)
so in short you bluntly admit that the qu'ran is the unfiltered personal ideology of Mohammed, who made sure that it would not be changed over the coming generations.
And of all things, that is the "rulebook" you wish to endear yourself to ?
btw, how does thatget in there? and the miracle ? what miracle?Quote:
thats why the Quran came to correct the interpretation that happened to the books before it ..
~i'm lost~
where's your logic ?
also: the qu'ran is one version, but there are other books written as well, kinda like christianity has many books in new and old testament.
no no its not ideology of mohammad .. its the word of God sent to mohammad by the Angel GabrielQuote:
so in short you bluntly admit that the qu'ran is the unfiltered personal ideology of Mohammed, who made sure that it would not be changed over the coming generations.
the bible and torah .. were intrepreted that God has a Son and the Stories of the Prophets as well they were interpretaed and so on... they changed alot of things in those books not just these twoQuote:
get in there?
~i'm lost~
where's your logic ?
this is one of the things in our Quran:
God Said in our Quran:
"And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things." 005.116
and
"Verily this Qur'an doth explain to the Children of Israel most of the matters in which they disagree" 027.076
and this is for MetalSkin:
"And certainly We have set forth for men every kind of example in this Quran; and if you should bring them a communication, those who disbelieve would certainly say: You are naught but false claimants." 30:58
"And those who disbelieve say: Why has not the Quran been revealed to him all at once? Thus, that We may strengthen your heart by it and We have arranged it well in arranging." 025.032
at all .. one version one book no other books written at all .. not like the bible and u can confirm that. :`)Quote:
the qu'ran is one version, but there are other books written as well, kinda like christianity has many books in new and old testament.
You have no clue :D. If we were talking about logic then I would definately have to agree with Metalskin, there is no proof. Not even you have that proof that Metalskin is looking for!!! You have natural events backed up by points from the Quran. That is not logic! Why, these natural events can happen in the natural evolution of the Earth and the Quran was written by human beings. Therefore you cannot say I am wrong and your religion is more 'logic' than mine because they are both as il-logic as each other.
You cannot simply keep quoting verses from the Quran because its getting you nowhere and your wasting space on the forums. Metalskin doesnt believe in Quran and neither do I so why would we pay attention to these forums! As you said, when we die we will all find out whether we are correct or not. So when that day comes then i will find out if i was logic :D lol Peace out Ellusionist.
... and they all lived happily ever after. The End.
Then another problem erupts...and it starts all over again..
yeah i am Christian, my Grandmother teach me to pray , etc... :)
i dont have to say anything .. but the scholars or the ppl that study science of the Quran .. they have more knowledge than all of us here... maybe like 100 times more .. so they prooven that this book cant be written by humen ...Quote:
, these natural events can happen in the natural evolution of the Earth and the Quran was written by human beings. Therefore you cannot say I am wrong and your religion is more 'logic' than mine because they are both as il-logic as each other.
and even if MetalSkin wanna argue with them .. they will answer all his Questions .. and they can proove to him .. and plus he dont have knowledge like they do im sure.. he can go to an islamic scholar and he can ask him all the questions he want ... not u or the ppl in GFX void can say that this is written by humens ,,, becuase u guys didnt study this ur hole life .. and u have little knowledge. Peace :D
Your scholars are people who believe in your religion. That makes them biased.
Sorry mate, but to prove such a thing to me you need unbiased commentory on it.
This is a standard method for proving a theory. Used by all academics in all fields. Someone discovers a mummy in egypt and professes their theory about it, well its not until independant unbiased people investigate it before its considered to be true.
Someone who has a vested interest to prove something true doesn't hold the weight of someone who has no vested interest. This is because often a person who wants to prove something true will tend to ignore evidence contary to the fact.
This is why if a crime happens and the detective involved in the case knows the victim or potential suspects then they are not allowed on the case. Because they are biased, even if they try not to be.
So if you think your comments in this regard will ever sway me then your mistaken. I think you will find that anyone who is familar with analytical methods and scientific reasoning will also not be swayed by your arguments.
hell no there not jus in my religion .. they compare everything .. everything that u dont imagine .. still man u dont have enough knowledge ..the only thing u can say is emotion .. and this is not a prove what kind of prove u want .. u want me to raise the dead for u lol :D
I belive in god.
Your answer Illusionist doesn't even address the point I have raised. You claim that my presumed lack of knowledge or experiance prevents me from stating what I have stated? It doesn't take a genius to understand biased observation and commentary.
Do you agree that these people are from your Religion? If they are, then they are biased.
I don't even see where I have asked you to perform a miricle, though if you started to argue on a logical basis and answer the points I have made then maybe that in itself would be a miraculous.
I would suggest that you need to understand the concepts involved in arguing a point of view, the concepts of bias, burden of proof, etc. When you have learned those subjects then maybe you can play with the big boys and poke fun at them. But right now your not displaying yourself in the best light.
omg...this post is goin on and on and on....only like 2 or 3 people are still argueing....god...its pointless...well wuhteva
You saing god aint real? Im aloud to belive in god, people think god aint real just because you cant see him will you cant see ghost but there real, look at all that evidence.
don't get involved Vin..you obviously haven't read the last 15 pages of this arguement like Metal has..he knows what he is talking about and your just stating something that has been argued for atleast 10 pages now..
Hey,im just saying what i belive in and you dont have to read 15 or 10 pages to say what you feel.
This is a a pole saying do you belive yes no so on im not reading 15 pages just to say i belive if i belive ima say it.
I was just answering the pole question, not looking to start trouble over god,if he is real he is real if he is not he is not but intill i find out ima stick to what i belive in.
Sorry if that sounds rude but its just how i feel.
Hey Vincent, I have no problem with your beleif system. I think XH was commenting on how your reason for beleiving has been covered extensivly over the last 15 pages is all.
As for your comments on proof, well it would be best if you read the previous 15 pages to understand what has been said and why your argument isn't one that gains much weight.
Plenty of people once beleived that the earth was flat, that the sun orbited around the earth, etc, etc... belief doesn't prove anything
Neither does not beliving.
You are probley right but ima say whats on my mind.
Matthew 14: 14-24
14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.
22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?
23Jesus replied, If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Thats my POV for you Metalskin, Please read it and it will explain my POV to you and thats where my Faith is. Although it may not be 'logic' as Ellusionist may go on about but thats logic enough for me. And if everything were to be logic then thered be no need for religion but it aint. human beings are far more logic than anyone can comprehend therefore i believe in God and I believe he is the only God and thats where my faith is.
Thats was some deep stuff, i got to agree with Krazee.
Sounds like an abusive relationship.Quote:
Originally posted by KRAZEE@Apr 24 2005, 06:29 AM
* 15If you love me, you will obey what I command.
[snapback]41654[/snapback]
Quote:
Do you agree that these people are from your Religion? If they are, then they are biased.
No i dont Agree ... Metal Skin im just gonna tell u this and thats it:
Even if how much i bring proofs u wont believe becuase ur heart and mind are Blind.. thats it its done .. even if u see a miracle in front of u u wont believe it .. and it says that in our Quran:
"Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe" 002-006
"Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur)" 002-007
"Of them there are some who (pretend to) listen to thee; but We have thrown veils on their hearts, So they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they saw every one of the signs, not they will believe in them; in so much that when they come to thee, they (but) dispute with thee; the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." 006.025
Thats an insult. Shows how much your God cares about people. If your God especially sets apart those whom he doesnt want to beleive in him and will 'punish' them, what kind of God is that?
And im sure your God has not done anything to metalskin, Metalskin has his beliefs and his reasons for not believing in God and ur God has not done anything to stop metalskin from believing in him.
oh i wonder why there is hell and heaven then !!Quote:
Thats an insult. Shows how much your God cares about people. If your God especially sets apart those whom he doesnt want to beleive in him and will 'punish' them, what kind of God is that?
man know i know that u dont know nothing and u never read the Stories of the Prophets !
do u know why there r prophets that came anyway ? they came to ppl that dont believe in God and worship idols as there God .. and they performed mericals .. and ppl still dont believe them even if they see the mircale in front of them .. thats it here were God comes and punish because ppl saw a miracle by there eyes and u didnt believe so what more do they want .. example like "Sodom" "Lot" ppl and others as well
look when u bring ppl proofs and u know it thats its proof .. but they want any excuse that there is no God .. thats it if u bring him as much proofs he wont believe anyway because his mind cant take it .. and then he starts making no senseQuote:
And im sure your God has not done anything to metalskin, Metalskin has his beliefs and his reasons for not believing in God and ur God has not done anything to stop metalskin from believing in him.
dude if anyones made no sense this entire time its you. I cant believe the arrogance you have in this convorsation. You flat out tell people your religion is better and right and everyone else is wrong. How can yours be right and everyone elses be wrong?
Simply becaues you claim something is proof does not mean it is, and I dont believe that any GOD would be so ignorant as to punish someone simply for not believing what you have to say lol.
oh i think there is something called searching and try to find the Truth .. or i think ppl r to lazy to do that lol and i think drink some bears .. and fuck as much as u want is more important ! oh yeah and jesus is gonna takecare of all of that for me ..Quote:
dude if anyones made no sense this entire time its you. I cant believe the arrogance you have in this convorsation. You flat out tell people your religion is better and right and everyone else is wrong. How can yours be right and everyone elses be wrong?
of course we believe in Jesus but not like That !
Man plz have some sense...u cant earn heaven that way !!
oh so i wonder why God Created us .. so everybody would disbelieve in him yeah i think that what God Want exactly yeah that makes more sense lol ... i didnt say they have to believe what i say .. ! God Created us and Created the Universe so we can acknowledge his existance .. !!Quote:
Simply becaues you claim something is proof does not mean it is, and I dont believe that any GOD would be so ignorant as to punish someone simply for not believing what you have to say lol.
and ur saying that the Guy that believes in God is the Same as the Guy that dont believe .. hell no !! thats why there is heaven and hell ! Satan is playing with pplz mind he wants them to think that there is no God .. because not believing in God thats it .. what is the use of u in This world if u dont acknowledge GOD !!
u think just Satisfying ur Body in this World u think thats the way of life .. of course Not .. thats not why we r here !!
Your a human being ellusionist, you yourself cant do anything to get yourself into heaven and from the Bible and what it says about your religion then logically your going to hell! You wanna start claiming that your right because of what the Qaran says then i guess im right too because the Bible says all who do not believe that Jesus died for them is going to HELL. And i guess Satans got a spot reserved for ur sorry asss.
U say i dont know anything, Mate i choose not to know about religions such as yours! Why? Because you have dumbasses like Osama Bin Laden and fools such as these claiming theres a God and he is worth dying for. Sorry that aint logic.
