60 Years Ago

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Originally posted by Jack@Aug 15 2005, 10:48 PM
EMPeiTQ, I'm just curious, but after pearl harbor what should we have done? I'll be honest, I'm not the biggest history buff; at least not on this topic.* As most who oppose war, you've made your opinion clear that you think the US made a mistake, but you haven't given your opinion on what we should have done.* Obviously I don't agree with killing innocent people, but I also don't agree with just sitting down to talk and trying to be dimplomatic with a country that had just made an attack.* Whether you believe we should have, we have yet to find out.

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To add to that, the US was also at war with japan, and beyond diplomacy with them. and Jack, your last sentence in that qoute is what i agree with.

Well of course we did what we had to do, and im NOT deffending Japan at ALL.. hell no. All im sayting, there might have been other ways. as to what the othere ways were. I DONT KNOW.. lol.
I just know that dropping such a weapon was not fair on the whole world. all the fallout the pollution and much more that came from it. and pearl harbor is a whole other topic in its self. but you got to look at all sides of things. not just the US side. Such weapons reek havoc on all life around the world in more ways then one.

All im saying is. did we HHHAAAAVEEE to do it? or could we have found another way.

another thing, "and I know i havent picked up on all your replies with this one and im not going to cause id be typing for ever" I just think its funny how the US does NOT want other countrys to have Nukes as we fear they might use them on us or someone els, when infact we are the only ones to use them out side of testing zonez and in war. now some other countrys are testing with them aswell , but they havent used them on another country. We did. and we expect the world to trust us with them. I know we did what we felt we had to do. but i just think the after matter is terrible.

ok well I wasnt trying to open a can of worms on me. I was just saying "two wrongs dont make it right"

I love my country.. but I dont have to agree with how its run.

As far as treating pow's with hot showers and meals. Pffftt.. we were just as bad. you dont have the photos and videos I HAVE from both my grandfathers who served and died in WW2 for the great USA. In the videos and pictures POW's were treated like shit and killed. thousands of them. the history channel wont show you that cause its not in there best intrest to show Americans doing that stuff.. they would get a ear full.

now not all americans treated pow's like that. no not at all.
but we did just as bad of things to, its part of WAR.
you can not controll everyone.

Look at the videos that got leeked all over the news of our solders in iraq beating the POW's with whips and having them kiss the solders shoes then getting kicked in the face while wearing a dog collar. give me a brake, this shit happends on all sides no matter who is the good or badguys.

its hard telling who it who war makes you do strange things. anger. confusion. trust. lost.. it can make people snap.

well to get back on topic i love the US its a great place. but everyone makes mistakes us along with alot of other countrys, I just feel we took a extream way to handle it. but it might of been what was needed. But now that people looks back, it looks as if we just wanted to see what we could do and beat the germans to it.

cause of course with out the germans who helped us make the bomb hitler would of had it first. cause it was his people who came to our side to help us and who made it work.

I dont know, Its just a large price to pay. But im glad the us helped defeat the germans or this world would be so diffrent then the one we know today if the germans had won.

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Originally posted by EMPeiTQ@Aug 16 2005, 09:54 PM
Well of course we did what we had to do, and im NOT deffending Japan at ALL.. hell no. All im sayting, there might have been other ways. as to what the othere ways were. I DONT KNOW.. lol.
I just know that dropping such a weapon was not fair on the whole world. all the fallout the pollution and much more that came from it. and pearl harbor is a whole other topic in its self. but you got to look at all sides of things. not just the US side. Such weapons reek havoc on all life around the world in more ways then one.

All im saying is. did we HHHAAAAVEEE to do it? or could we have found another way.

another thing, "and I know i havent picked up on all your replies with this one and im not going to cause id be typing for ever" I just think its funny how the US does NOT want other countrys to have Nukes as we fear they might use them on us or someone els, when infact we are the only ones to use them out side of testing zonez and in war. now* some other countrys are testing with them aswell , but they havent used them on another country. We did. and we expect the world to trust us with them. I know we did what we felt we had to do. but i just think the after matter is terrible.

ok well I wasnt trying to open a can of worms on me. I was just saying "two wrongs dont make it right"

I love my country.. but I dont have to agree with how its run.

As far as treating pow's with hot showers and meals. Pffftt.. we were just as bad. you dont have the photos and videos I HAVE from both my grandfathers who served and died in WW2 for the great USA. In the videos and pictures POW's were treated like shit and killed. thousands of them. the history channel wont show you that cause its not in there best intrest to show Americans doing that stuff.. they would get a ear full.

now not all americans treated pow's like that. no not at all.
but we did just as bad of things to, its part of WAR.
you can not controll everyone.

Look at the videos that got leeked all over the news of our solders in iraq beating the POW's with whips and having them kiss the solders shoes then getting kicked in the face while wearing a dog collar. give me a brake, this shit happends on all sides no matter who is the good or badguys.

its hard telling who it who war makes you do strange things. anger. confusion. trust. lost.. it can make people snap.

well to get back on topic i love the US its a great place. but everyone makes mistakes us along with alot of other countrys, I just feel we took a extream way to handle it. but it might of been what was needed. But now that people looks back, it looks as if we just wanted to see what we could do and beat the germans to it.

cause of course with out the germans who helped us make the bomb hitler would of had it first. cause it was his people who came to our side to help us and who made it work.

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I respect your views, and yes america did treat POW's bad, but that was the tention of war. And the reason America is scared that other contries have Necuar bomb is becuase America know that any country would use those just for the heck of it, America ont he other hand will only use them if there is a threat.

ive also wondered about other ways, and wondered why those didnt get done. i cant say that im for or against what happened, seeing as multiple events couldve led to the end of the war IMO.

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Originally posted by MasterDuckie@Aug 17 2005, 03:05 AM
I respect your views, and yes america did treat POW's bad, but that was the tention of war.* And the reason America is scared that other contries have Necuar bomb is becuase America know that any country would use those just for the heck of it, America ont he other hand will only use them if there is a threat.

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Yes i agree with you.
But, with the way our CIA is working we might think we have a threat / target and bomb the wrong place. we have done it befor ;)

look at the church full of people watching a couple in iraq get merried we bombed and killed everyone in in 2002. We thought it was a group planning a attack on our troops.. its hard telling. that was NOT good.
all we said on the news was "OOOPS sorry" in basic terms.

Not trying to bring it all down to iraq, but it we make mistakes now we deff made them back in ww2, but as did others.

I just do not like how sence 1954 cancer around the world has trippled every year. im not saying the bombs had anything to do with it. im sure its ALOT of things. pollution, chemicals we use,groth hormons in food, other stuff in food, half the shit on the wraper of my food i cant even read.. WTF is up with that.. and I CAN READ ;) lol.. maby i should say half the stuff on the back of food wrappers now a days is out of this world.. lol. I dont know.. I give up im sick of this subject sorry.. i can point and point the finger all day long.. but in the end im just standing and pointing my finger along with everyone els..

what we should be doing is pulling each others fingers. ;) lmao...

I look at the entire bombing as a Shock tactic... Those cities were put on a do not bomb list for a reason, it was because they were being reserved. The Americans fire bombed alot of Japenese cities, it wasn't anything new. TOTAL WAR.

The dropping of the atomic bombs was to show that the japs had no alternative, but to surrender.

Had Americans landed the ratio of american deaths to jap deaths would of been 1:1 and the japs if defeated, would of been able to settle surrender terms more into their favor.

Also you have to look at the pressure that was in place... Truman had brought Stalin into the matter, he needed help, and Stalin could provide it, however no one wanted Stalin to gain too much territorry, the territory Stalin would gain, would be his.

The Use of the Atomic bombs saved American Lives, Kept the Russians from gaining too much territory (if that of any)

just an FYI, even though dropping the atomic bomb was horrendus, the firebombing of Dresden caused more deaths, and is many times overlooked when talking about the war.

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Originally posted by kompakt@Aug 18 2005, 11:08 PM
just an FYI, even though dropping the atomic bomb was horrendus, the firebombing of Dresden caused more deaths, and is many times overlooked when talking about the war.

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You dont know that?

Firebombs hardly create any radiation / airborns.

The Atomic Bomb spread mass radiation on a global scale. it has been proven. The Gamma waves to this day are still in our atmosphere. not alot. but they are still around. I cant belive people still live at ground zero of both sites. normaly you arnt suppose to move back for 30 years or more, its past the 30 years now. but people started rebuilding right away..

scarry.. im sure lots died from radiation poison & cancer for years on after around the world but mostly in the dead zones.

The at the moment we have more gamma waves from the Chernobyl accident world wide, a giger counter will read 10-12 microroentgen per hour in most places in the USA.

befor the Chernobyl accident it was 6-9 microroentgen per hour.

I dont know what it was befor the Atomic bomb. But im sure it was a little lower. we do however get 3-14 microrentgen per hour from the sun, depending on were you are. also from the earths radiation belt.

there is so much natural radiation. I just dont think we need to add to it ;)

anyway. Sorry just felt like commenting on that. cause in the long run we dont know how meny died from the aftermath and the blast all togeather.

someone with cancer today could have it from the gamma waves from the bomb or from other sources., you just never know.. maby a little bit of both/all.

true, but im just saying that the dresden firebombing is also equally important, even though its not causing deaths in the long run, it killed more in the short run. just another big event in the war