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When i said We i ment the country not us specificly.
We are in iraq, besides getting oil what else are we doing. Trying to alter governemtn. By your definition we are terrorists as well. **** america, ill say it all day. Im not even from usa, im russian. I'd love to move back to europe somewhere or canada. Im still 16 tho :/
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When i said We i ment the country not us specificly.
We are in iraq, besides getting oil what else are we doing. Trying to alter governemtn. By your definition we are terrorists as well. **** america, ill say it all day. Im not even from usa, im russian. I'd love to move back to europe somewhere or canada. Im still 16 tho :/
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this country's better off without you. i'll say it all day.
and if you're not from the US, and don't care about the US, and prefer Europe, it's my opinion that you have no room to criticize us.
I got all the room in the world to criticize you. Your actions affect the world not just america.
1) you cannot criticize anyone when you cannot even hope to do better
2) your country is a bigger ****up than america, and you want to talk about who should be criticized?
3) it's painfully obvious that the only reason you want to prove that the government was behind the attacks is because you hate the government. the only reason anyone should be looking for alternatives to terrorism in 9/11 is to find the truth so that justice can be served. you don't give a shit about that.
Why dont you just go slit your wrists?
Bush Dickrider, Russia is not a ****up. Russia is a great country!!!
well i think this conversation is over.
i'm sure you would like for me to make a snapp comeback, but no, i'll use logic.
at what point in my entire sequence of posts did i give ANY grounds for you to make a comment about me slitting my wrists?
times up.
stfu.
Yeah im done talking about this with you, lets have someone with some sense post. Even if they post they think its not real, at least lets hope they have maturity in thier post.
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Now think about the structure. It was only damaged from the top. The structure at the bottem was stable. The Jetfuel only burns to a certain degree. It takes Numerous hours to heat up steal to 2000degrees. Then the steal has to bend. On the 2nd WTC, the majority of jetfuel was outside the building not inside. Giving the precision of the buildings coming down, preasure did not do this. They came down carefully like controlled demolition. They came in Caved in.
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Don't say things like they're facts when none of us truly knows what happened.Quote:
9/11 is a tragedy, that the bush administration Mainly including his brother created.
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We are terrorists too(using your definition).
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Just to let you know, you should do a little research yourself first before you start saying all of these bold things. Let me help you understand the physics of all of this a little better.Quote:
We are in iraq, besides getting oil what else are we doing. Trying to alter governemtn. By your definition we are terrorists as well. **** america
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The WTC towers were built during the 60s-70s. They were using a new technique to making sky scrapers in which it was more cost and time effective and they were made with much lighter materials. Even though the wind was low that day, the wind alone pushed the towers to 1/3 of their pressure limit. The fires didn't reach 2000 degrees. They didn't need to. There was 90,000 gallons of jet fuel. Now, just because there is so much it doesnt mean that the fire by any means was hotter than if there was less, it just means that there was more of a fire. The steel in the building begins to soften at 425 degrees celsius. The beams lose half of their strength at 650C. Even with only half of their strength, the beams would have held up. They would have held up at half strength after being weakend by a plane (1/30 the mass of the towers) crashing into them at 500 mph. They would have even held up at half strength with the wind pushing them to 1/3 of their pressure limit after being hit by a plane. The issue isn't how hot was the fire, it was how did the fire burn. Clearly the fire wasn't consistent through the beams on the floor the plane hit. It was up to 1000-1500C at some points and for example, 850C in other areas. The beams then warped because some parts were hotter than others and those parts expanded. This inconsistency in both heat, density, and size made the thin beams (remember it was made with lighter materials) buckle and break.
Thats about the fire, now for the structure and weight. Each building itself was 500,000 tons. Each floor could withstand 1,300 tons more than its own weight. The problem wasn't mainly the beams. After the plane took out a few beams (due to the way it was set up) and the heat took out others, the problem became the angle clips holding the joists between the columns. When the beams gave way, the angle clips became ineffective, the joists broke, and the columns bent outward. This outward motion allowed the floors above to come down. The crash/fire affected about 10 floors. Those floors came down due to the reasons I said before. Even though each floor can withstand 1,300 tons more than its own weight, it clearly couldn't hold up the 45,000 tons of the 10 floors above them. After those 10 floors it was just like the domino effect. The towers themselves were not solid. They were 95% air, so they easily collapsed on themselves (aka implode). Keep in mind that these towers were built to make sure the buildings didn't sway back and forth in the wind, so after the plane hit it, like you said the tower didn't fall immediately. That horizontal motion was finished. There was no reason the tower would have fallen horizontally. It fell as it should.
Hopefully that makes it a little bit easier for you to understand why they collapsed.
As for the whole "oil is the reason we went into iraq" stuff, that is the biggest liberal media lie I've heard. If you didn't know, even now years into the war, what oil have we gotten from Iraq? In feburary 2006, only 0.047% of all crude oil imported to the US is from Iraq. Only 0.040% of all petroleum imported is from Iraq. All past months and in the past couple years, that rate has been about the same. So the whole oil thing, you should probably stop trying to use that as an arguement.
According to Sui's definition of terrorist, we are actually not terrorists despite your apparent belief. We did not initiate the attack.
Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
We were attacked, and we acted on that attack, so we threatened (and followed through with) use of force or violence, but it was the lawful use of force/violence. It was lawful because we were attacked first. Now, before you say "but wait Jack, it wasnt iraq that attacked us!" Of course it wasn't. It was Iraq, however, that assisted in the training of the terrorists aboard the planes. Both US and British intelligence shows specific occasions in which Hussein invited Bin Laden and followers to Iraq and to neighboring countries, and he taught them new methods of building and employing explosives, he gave them supplies, and he even allowed them to train on a commercial plane he had. By the way, if you read my earlier post, Iraq did have WMDs, they were hidden in Syria.
We had the catalyst, we had the justification, and we had the means to attack terrorism and prevent further attacks. So, thats exactly what we did. There have been multiple recorded attempts at an attack that have been prevented.
One last time for emphasis: before you try to argue an unbelievably extreme conspiracy theory, do some research yourself. Everything I've said I've carefully researched myself. I love my country.
LOL, im to lazy to read your whole post but i skimmed through. Dylan did his research on the support beams on WTC.
I support what i belive, and im not stepping down. Im not giving up either(ima keep researching) I plan on writing a report on this(Get extra credits for highschool) About the Oil, Doesnt matter how much crude oil hsa been imported to US. Now bush is able to import himself being he's in control.
Now im not going into no flame war with you, but thats a weak defense on the structure of WTC without actually knowing what was used to build it. Link to any sources of yours?
Edit: Going with the Terrorist theory, CIA was the ones who initially trained them. Iraq really hadnt much to do with 9.11
I can teach you how to build a bomb too, does that make me responsible if you go and build a bomb and bomb your neighbor. Its Freedom of Speech.
No Iraq was in the making of having WMD's. All they found was a warehouse of Chemicals. Link to where it says WMD's were in Syria. So does this now make syria responsible too, and we should go invade thier country?
1. It was staged by Steven Spielberg and the movie will be coming out this winter "Nightmare Before 9/11"
2. The idea of a plane being taken over by terrorists with box cutters is like clowns hijacking a tour bus with squirt guns.
3. Blame Bush, everyone else does.
4. I bet if a plane hit your house on that day you would be supporting the war.
5. Your an idiot if you think this war is about oil.....its about oil, payback, and keeping america safe =)
6. I think I went off topic.
HAHAH i only agree with payback and oil part:)
Please, read my post if you intend on replying to it. It makes no sense for you to criticize my post without having actually thoroughly read it.
If you'd like my sources for both the oil and the information on the WTC here:
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/...Eagar-0112.html - WTC
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petrole...ent/import.html - Oil (do the math like I did)
So, you're saying that the CIA went to Afghanistan, trained the extremist soldiers in how to hijack a plane in the United States and crash it into one of the most important buildings to the world economy? Did I understand that right? If I did, no offense, but you're a lunatic.
You can teach me how to build a bomb true enough. I can use that information to go blow up my neighbor's house. However, if you provided me with the money, the materials, and the training knowing my intentions of blowing up my neighbor's house, that wouldn't be considered freedom of speech. That would make you an accomplice in a serious felony.
Of course they only found was a warehouse of chemicals. Hussein didn't allow the UN inspectors in at first, delaying them, and then he made them leave before they even finished their search. They were delayed long enough for the weapons to be moved.
I'll look for my original source (its been awhile), but in the mean time, heres another one showing the opinion of the Isreali general and multiple important Iraqis (i.e. the head of a political party pushing the Iraqi government to continue chemical weapon research).
http://www.nysun.com/article/24480
The UN is now, in fact, asking Syria to allow inspectors to search. Syria, just like Iraq, isn't complying and isn't letting them. If they don't have the weapons, why can't the inspectors look? Syria is one of only 8 countries that didn't sign the Chemical Weapons Convention.
Edit: Silly me, I forgot to address your "bush is now in control" comment. Obviously Bush is not in control. There is a democracy there, there have been elections with the majority of the people voting. Besides, this part I havent researched this topic extensively, but even if Bush was "in controle" I don't think he'd have control over the oil. Iraq is part of OPEC, an organization unifying oil export from the 11 top oil producing countries. Meaning, OPEC controls all outbound oil and oil prices to ensure that the prices are stable and that neither party (producers nor consumers) can benefit over the other. It is meant to keep things steady and equal, so the idea that now that Bush has set up democracy in Iraq and that now gives him complete control over Iraqi oil exports is wrong.
No you didnt understand it right. While i posting I read your post thoroughly.
Sorry but the WTC Link seems reallllly strange. To be exact The WTC towers lasted for one to two hours It was 74 minutes for Tower 1. And less then an hour for tower 2.
Why would syria let america in, So the same can happen to them just like the whole middle east went through with it.
This whole issue is shady, and we'll never know. But im just reporting what i imagine it is. Im taking into account all these facts becuase im unbiased and open minded but i still belive Dylan has substantial evidance for his claim. Im done argueing, i just wanted to post my opinion.
Read my updated post.
Please, don't call yourself unbiased because thats just as much of a lie as the rest of this conspiracy theory.
Syria would, logically, let the UN in (note: not america. again, thats united nations, not united states), so that nobody has any lingering suspicions. We will know whether there are weapons or not. Asserting that if they let inspectors in means that America is going to invade Syria is rediculous.
The reason the link may seem strange is because it says different than "loose change" which has been your basis for your entire arguement. Check the sources at the bottom of the page. Theyre all credible: MIT, National Fire Protection Association etc. Sorry, but I think your whole arguement thus far has been completely groundless. I like discussion though, this is fun stuff.
I am unbiased. Im not disagreeing that your putting up a valid and good arguement. But this woulid better be handled off of this forum.
How about other sources that were provided in loose chnage + more. Example: Steven Jones take on WTC.
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
Just to let you know, the US Consumes 25% of the Worlds Oil, and Iraq isn't and never even was in the top 5 suppliers of the US's oil. So that's not why we wen't to Iraq.
Wondering why gas prices are so high right now? It's because we are creating a new mixture which includes 90% gasoline and 10% ethanol. Also, GM cars will be compatible with E-85, which is a mixture that includes 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.
http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/
Oh, and the comment about clowns taking over a bus with squirt guns...
Yea, well one guy robbed a bank using an airsoft pistol... don't think it isn't possible.
Oh and the terrorists didn't use only box cutters... they were able to get some plastic handled knives in too...
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Just to let you know, the US Consumes 25% of the Worlds Oil, and Iraq isn't and never even was in the top 5 suppliers of the US's oil. So that's not why we wen't to Iraq.
Wondering why gas prices are so high right now? It's because we are creating a new mixture which includes 90% gasoline and 10% ethanol. Also, GM cars will be compatible with E-85, which is a mixture that includes 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.
http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/
Oh, and the comment about clowns taking over a bus with squirt guns...
Yea, well one guy robbed a bank using an airsoft pistol... don't think it isn't possible.
Oh and the terrorists didn't use only box cutters... they were able to get some plastic handled knives in too...
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the reason the terrorists took over the plane so easily was because people NEVER suspected them to crash the plane. in the typical hijacking, the terrorists just take over the plane, get to where they're going, and let the people go. if a terrorist comes in threatening to have a bomb, armed with a box cutter (yes a box cutter, but when someone acts erradicly threatening to kill everyone, you tend to get somewhat uneasy) so the passengers figured they'd wait it out.
hence why, on flight 93, when the passengers heard the terrorists were using the planes to crash into buildings, they decided to do something about it, because this was no ordinary hijacking where cooperation with the terrorists lets you live.
IMHO, I think Flight 93 will probably be the most remembered flight.
The way they teamed up together to try to reattain control of the plane, and how they almost got one of the passengers into the pilots seat that was a certified pilot.
I'm gonna try to see the movie "United 93" when it comes out, but it will be a pretty difficult movie to watch, and it will be heartbreaking. Although, I have no idea how the husbands/wives/children of some of the victims in that plane are gonna take it...
They will probably see them as heroes though... which, without a doubt, they are.
LOL that Flight 93 Stuff was bullshit, and this new United 93 movie will be too. haha im only gonna watcht that movie cauase i work at century theaters. "lets Roll 911 "
Tell the families of flight 93 that...Quote:
LOL that Flight 93 Stuff was bullshit, and this new United 93 movie will be too. haha im only gonna watcht that movie cauase i work at century theaters. "lets Roll 911 "
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No way it was stagged.
@ Anarchy stfu.
Well where's the plane, honostly. two 12 ton titanium alloy engines dont just vaporize. The whole that the plane left is only like 20 feetx10x6
Im not even gonna reply to you Mr.Black
That was the plan. You weren't supposed to talk.Quote:
Well where's the plane, honostly. two 12 ton titanium alloy engines dont just vaporize. The whole that the plane left is only like 20 feetx10x6
Im not even gonna reply to you Mr.Black
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Anarchy, you seem to know a lot about 911, maybe you should join the government. Heck, it sounds like you know more about 911 than the government, the families that lost relatives in the crash, and even the terrorists themselves!
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Could you link me to the source where you got the info. that the hole was 20x10x6 feet? I know the guy in my video said it was something like that, but he said it appeared to be that wide, but your mind does play tricks on you.
Ok well here is a simple science class for you.. Watch almost any video of an F1 racing crash on a straight away when the car is at top speed, those vehicles are going maybe what 200 mph?
Example
now, if a plane is going 500 + mph, what do you think will happen to it? besides, if the plane or engines did not disintegrate on impact, then they sure would have been finished off after the entire building collapsed..
now, about the size of the hole, all you need to do to find out about that is measure or look at the specs of a 767 plane.. simple as that, it wouldnt make a hole 20 ft, it would be a bit more imo and also i dont really thin a 20X10X6 hole in a building would make it completely collapse on itself.. that hole would be about what, 2 office rooms?
actually from accounts of families of the hijackers and those involved that were not on the planes, the terrorists were religiously driven and were convinced that it was God's will to take all those lives to heaven..Quote:
the reason the terrorists took over the plane so easily was because people NEVER suspected them to crash the plane. in the typical hijacking, the terrorists just take over the plane, get to where they're going, and let the people go. if a terrorist comes in threatening to have a bomb, armed with a box cutter (yes a box cutter, but when someone acts erradicly threatening to kill everyone, you tend to get somewhat uneasy) so the passengers figured they'd wait it out.[/b]
sadly, one of my longest posts ever, anywhere. :o
Which flight are we talking about here? It was flight 77 that hit the pentagon, flight 93 crashed over Pennsylvania when the passengers took back the plane.
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the reason the terrorists took over the plane so easily was because people NEVER suspected them to crash the plane. in the typical hijacking, the terrorists just take over the plane, get to where they're going, and let the people go. if a terrorist comes in threatening to have a bomb, armed with a box cutter (yes a box cutter, but when someone acts erradicly threatening to kill everyone, you tend to get somewhat uneasy) so the passengers figured they'd wait it out.[/b]
actually from accounts of families of the hijackers and those involved that were not on the planes, the terrorists were religiously driven and were convinced that it was God's will to take all those lives to heaven.. [/b][/quote]
Um I'm confused. Which part of Sui's post are you arguing with? It sounds like you were disagreeing with something in it anyway. He never said anything about what the terrorists' actual motivation was, only what people expected their plans to be.
nevermind.. i was thinking too hard.. i misunderstood his post.. i missed the "so easily" in his post and read it as " the reason the terrorists took over the plane was..." my bad.. :(
Its cool ;) happens to the best of us.
I ment you had a bullshit post black.
There are photo's Ground + Aerial. Just look at the photo's and do the math.Quote:
Could you link me to the source where you got the info. that the hole was 20x10x6 feet? I know the guy in my video said it was something like that, but he said it appeared to be that wide, but your mind does play tricks on you.[/b]
First off, the F1 Weighs at most 1 Ton. The commercial jet weighs 100 tons. Now examine the video. The construction of the F1 is Carbon Fiber which breaks on that kind of impact. The engine however(according to your video) Stayed intact. Where's the engine from pentagon OR shanksville.Quote:
Ok well here is a simple science class for you.. Watch almost any video of an F1 racing crash on a straight away when the car is at top speed, those vehicles are going maybe what 200 mph?
Example
now, if a plane is going 500 + mph, what do you think will happen to it? besides, if the plane or engines did not disintegrate on impact, then they sure would have been finished off after the entire building collapsed..
now, about the size of the hole, all you need to do to find out about that is measure or look at the specs of a 767 plane.. simple as that, it wouldnt make a hole 20 ft, it would be a bit more imo and also i dont really thin a 20X10X6 hole in a building would make it completely collapse on itself.. that hole would be about what, 2 office rooms? [/b]
If we were talkinga bout the pentagon and how the collapse of the buildings took the engines with them, the engines would have turned up in the rubble as they went through it. And according to how the plane Flew in, the engines woulda been lodged on the sides of the building 35 Feet apart(dont know the exact measurment from Engine to Engine on a 767(if it was a 767)
Why the hell would the Pentagon blow up 1/5 of their building!?! That makes no sense whatsoever!
Do you mind linking me to arial photos? I can't seem to find any arial shots on google or anything...Quote:
There are photo's Ground + Aerial. Just look at the photo's and do the math.[/b]
I did find this one kept appearing on google however http://www.september11news.com/Fligh...terReuters.jpg
to me, that looks a bigger than 20 feet...
Evidence of Flight 93 crash...
Eyewitnesses of the Flight 93 crash...Quote:
"Eight miles away in New Baltimore, Melanie Hankinson said she found singed papers and other light debris from the crash, including pages from Hemispheres Magazine, United's in-flight magazine. Stoe said authorities initially insisted crash debris could not have traveled over a mountain ridge more than eight miles from the crash.[/b]
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"Once it hit, everything just disintegrated," he said. "There are just shreds of metal. The longest piece I saw was 2 feet long."[/b]
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"There was no way anything was left," Pluta added. "There was just charred pieces of metal and a big hole. The plane didn't slide into the crash. It went straight into the ground. Wings out. Nose down."[/b]
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Bob Blair of Stoystown was driving a coal truck on state Route 30 when he saw the jet plummet "straight down." Barn windowpanes for half a mile around shattered as the jet dived into a reclaimed strip mine and exploded at 10:10 a. m.
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"Then it just rolled over and was flying upside down for a few seconds ... and then it kind of stalled and did a nose dive over the trees. It was just unreal to see something like that."
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A witness told WTAE-TV's Paul Van Osdol that she saw the plane overhead. It made a high-pitched, screeching sound. The plane then made a sharp, 90-degree downward turn and crashed.
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“I saw the plane flying upside down overhead and crash into the nearby trees. My buddy, Doug, and I grabbed our fire extinguishers and ran to the scene,” said Blair.[/b]
What is better evidence of the plane crashing, than the eyewitnesses themselves?
Now, listen to the eyewitness's of Shankz. INCLUDING THE MAYOR HIMSELF.
The part the "plane" Crashed into the pentagon was the part where they build reinforced concrete etc... for this EXACT Purpose. They did this all in a plot for economics.Quote:
Why the hell would the Pentagon blow up 1/5 of their building!?! That makes no sense whatsoever![/b]
http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/jpg/size600/P200058-1.jpg
http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/jpg/size600/P200058-1.jpg
http://www.physics911.ca/gallery2/d/...nk-092201c.jpg - dug out most of the hole looking for plane or something
I may have made the dimensions a bit smaller then they appear. But still no plane crashed. 2 Engines made of titanium alloy DO NOT DISINIGRATE.
sorry... not quite following you there...Quote:
Now, listen to the eyewitness's of Shankz. INCLUDING THE MAYOR HIMSELF
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What? That still doesn't explain what their point for doing that is.Quote:
The part the "plane" Crashed into the pentagon was the part where they build reinforced concrete etc... for this EXACT Purpose. They did this all in a plot for economics. [/b]
Read Further, they did all this for economic gain.
oh please.
I think It's BS about the Economic gain... also, I found some other, better quality arial photos.
Remember, the plane was going straight down...
http://www.physics911.ca/gallery2/d/7325-6/pacrash.jpg
http://www.physics911.ca/gallery2/d/...mprint33al.jpg
They did this, so that they can wage war on middle east. Too many facts point to this being america, YOu want me to display each fact and you argue against it?
No, I just want you to realize that this is America. We wouldn't kill thousands of totally innocent people for a boost of economy.
To tell you the truth, you just sound like a rebel that wants to fight for his already given rights.
Go to China, North Korea, or some other communist government and fight there, but don't fight for your given rights here in America.
Look on the other side too, why don't you look for info that supports terrorists doing this and not our own government? I'm sure you will find MUCH more logical information.
With every incident there is conspiracy. Some retards even blamed the government for hurricane Katrina, and to tell you the completely honest truth, I wouldn't be suprised if you were one of these people.
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With every incident there is conspiracy. Some retards even blamed the government for hurricane Katrina, and to tell you the completely honest truth, I wouldn't be suprised if you were one of these people.
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but but...but... the government DID steer the hurricane towards new orleans with high powered top secret nano-magnets
dont you know
appreciate the sarcasm and remarks gentleman, but bush pulled support for katrina familes, i find that fked up
OK, well, I live in Texas, and yea, most of the Louisiana evacuees were/are here.
They came from the Superdome in New Orleans, by bus, to Reunion Arena, and many other shelters and some peoples houses.
We were constantly working to get the evacuees a fresh start on a new life. They were each given, by the government and Visa, a Visa card with $2000 on it (for food and shelter) on top of the countless amount of donations to their shelter.
Bush was constantly helping them up until the point where they could live on their own. If he hadn't pulled the support from them, then they would have kept feeding off the government, hurting the economy. He had to pull support whenever he found that they could make it on their own.
Trust me, I have talked to the people that used to live in New Orleans. There are about 20-30 that go to my school, and most are going to stay in Texas because they like it better here. Some of them believe that God destroyed New Orleans, all the strip clubs, the crime, and all the sin along with it, so that it could have a better, fresher start.
Sounds like Noah's Ark except on a smaller scale, eh?
Anyway, back to 9/11.
You still haven't given me a good reason as to why the U.S. would fly a plane into the Pentagon, even if it was the Concrete/steel reinforced side, that doesn't explain why they would do it.
Give me a GOOD reason...
