God

Elohim
The root of Elohim is El (el). The form elohim is a plural form commonly understood as a plural of majesty. While the word occurs in Canaanite ('l) and Akkadian (ilu[m]), its etymology is uncertain. In the OT the word is always construed in the singular when it denotes the true God. In the Pentateuch the name elohim connotes a general concept of God; that is, it portrays God as the transcendent being, the creator of the universe. It does not connote the more personal and palpable concepts inherent in the name Yahweh. It can also be used to apply to false gods as well as to judges and kings.

Elusionist?! got something to say?

Did either of you guys actualy become involved in your religion because you looked at the models of evolution and decided, hey, that doesn't make sense, there must be a god. and then you searched for a religion to beleive?

I doubt it very much. I suspect that both of you already beleived in your respective religions and then heard from others all the arguments both for and against creationism/evolutionism.

If you believed your religion, not from logical conclusion but from another means, then the chances are you will not be totaly self analytical and place yourselfs in the role of a person who doesn't beleive. If you were, you would see why some of your arguments do not hold weight with someone who doesn't believe, especialy when that person asks for a logical discussion about the proof of a god, let alone the choice of religion that you beleive in.

The following link is interesting read for people of different faiths and those who do not follow any particular faith:

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...price/son.html

I doubt if many will read the article but there is one theme in the article which I totaly agree with. If someone came to their belief system, not by logical conclusion then no amount of logic, regardless of the evidence, will convince them otherwise. In addition, those people will use methods taught from fellow beleivers tools which they are told are good for arguing their case. Often however, their arguments only sound good to fellow beleivers because they fail to consider how it sounds from a non-beleiver's shoes.

Over and over again, throughout the last 16 years (from 20 to 36) I have found that people who have a religious beleif system didn't come to it by logical thought. And when on the defense about their religion, will not openly consider any logic that may not support their religion.

In debating a theory both evidence for and against should be considered. Unfortunatly people who have a 'stake' in one view, tend to ignore evidence that is contary. This doesn't apply to just religious beleifs, look at beleifs in UFO's, Ghosts, ESP, big brother consipiracy, etc.

Thats a very very very long article man, however i will read it.

Your right i didnt check out the logic in the religion or the theory of evolution, why, because it is just another theory same as religion. But you think when you die, will that knowledge of creationism/evolutionsism get you into heaven or hell. Wheres the logic in the afterlife of evolutionism. I dont see how with our complex beings we can jus die and be buried/cremated. I believe there is life after death and that Jesus dying for me is the only way i can get to Heaven.

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Elohim
The root of Elohim is El (el). The form elohim is a plural form commonly understood as a plural of majesty. While the word occurs in Canaanite ('l) and Akkadian (ilu[m]), its etymology is uncertain. In the OT the word is always construed in the singular when it denotes the true God. In the Pentateuch the name elohim connotes a general concept of God; that is, it portrays God as the transcendent being, the creator of the universe. It does not connote the more personal and palpable concepts inherent in the name Yahweh. It can also be used to apply to false gods as well as to judges and kings.

Elusionist?! got something to say?

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yeah i do lol ... if its the same God as u Say why there God Dont have a Son and urs have .. and there was a Jewish Guy on CNN said even if moses Claim that he was the Son of God .. we will Reject That !! :D

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Did either of you guys actualy become involved in your religion because you looked at the models of evolution and decided, hey, that doesn't make sense, there must be a god. and then you searched for a religion to beleive?

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Yes i did ... and here is the non-religious proof that Evolution theory is just a waste of time !! :D:

Can it Be that the Universe Created Itself?</span>

Let us imagine ourselves standing in a laboratory stocked with beakers and test tubes containing all sorts of chemical compounds. Then suppose an earthquake has just occurred upsetting the shelved vessels, sending their contents spilling onto the laboratory floor. It would be a very strange coincidence indeed to find new life forms generating themselves where none had existed before.

You might say, &#39;Your analogy didn&#39;t account for time - these organisms need time to evolve.&#39; We ask, &#39;How much time should we have allowed? Was there enough time since the beginning of the universe to allow for their self-induced formation?&#39;

Let&#39;s hear from Swiss mathematician Charles Eugene Jai. In an experiment aimed at answering this very question, Jai set out to calculate the probability of the random formation of a single protein molecule. Jai &#39;helped&#39; the situation by assuming the existence of formative elements, and by selecting a protein consisting of only 2,000 atoms (An average protein might consist of 32,000 atoms or more). Jai also assumed that the protein would consist of only 2 unique formative atoms.

He determined the value of probability by considering the size of the material and the time necessary for the random formation to occur. He calculated that the probability of forming even a simplified protein molecule was approximately 1 in 5 x 10 e+320 &#33;

The size of the material necessary to produce that almost zero probability would have been a sphere with a diameter of approximately 6 x 10 e+176 miles - about 10 e+63 times bigger than the imagined size of the universe. Finally, the time necessary for the molecule to form was 10 e+243 billion years. This was far greater than the supposed age of the universe - only about 2 billion years.

He concluded that the universe was neither old enough, nor big enough to allow for the random formation of even a simple protein molecule. It was impossible for the universe to have created itself, and for life to randomly form. We must then consider another course. There is a Creator who created the universe.

<span style=\'color:blue\'>P.S: i dont think MetalSkin u gonna Argue with a mathematician ... i guess he have more knowledge than u about these things :D

Brother, you dont understand. The Jews as i understand believe in what the Old testament says but they dont believe in the salvation of Jesus.

Do you really think that your God is the same as the Jews God?

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Brother, you dont understand. The Jews as i understand believe in what the Old testament says but they dont believe in the salvation of Jesus.

Do you really think that your God is the same as the Jews God?

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Yup Thats what the Jewish guy Said on the CNN show .. he said that islam and judonism are very similar and have lot in common... and we have the same God .. and because the most common thing is that our God dont have a Son B)

Of course he would say that, he would only read the old testament. However when Jesus did come they rejected him... Of course a Jew would say that for they dont believe in Jesus meaning its biased and just as you quote stuff from Islamic scholars which is biased so is Jewish evidence, why, because they dont believe in Jesus.

If you read the Bible you will also see that the Jewish God claims that he has a son. Read the story of Abraham, it clearly says, God will make a great nation unto him, God will make Abrahams name great, all nations will be saved because of him. Although God said these things to Abraham they were fulfilled thru the coming of Jesus as you know Abraham only had 1 son to Sara. And the Jews should believe because God mentions it many times thruout the OT.

Soulbound,

Evolution _IS_ adaptation and natuaral selection. That&#39;s what it is... So which is it, do you believe in it or not? Or do you just believe in saying it one way and not the other...

As for the big bang theory. All the disbelievers in the big bang always say "what are the odds that..." Have you seen space? We&#39;re one in over a trillion solar systems, that have been in existance for over a trillion years. How is it unbelievable to think that you&#39;re 80 years of life is just a coincidence. The human species, the earth, even our sun. Their lifetimes will be just a blink of the eye compared to the lifetime of this universe.

And the big bang doesn&#39;t "disprove" a god, nor is it a fact. It&#39;s a theory. Is it so unbelievable that god created the big bang? Do you really believe that when god creates things just appear, wouldn&#39;t it seem more plausible to think that god manipulates things slowly over time. Trees don&#39;t just pop out of thin air, they take years and years to grow... does that mean god didn&#39;t make that tree? I think not.

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As for the similarities between Islam and Jeudaism. If you study the three, islam, juedaism, and christianity you&#39;ll see that they basically all start from the same place, the same religion. Slowly they started to branch off, but it wasn&#39;t until the birth of christ that things really went nuts. After that the three took totally different views. So it&#39;s not unbelievable to think that those three worship the same god, however Jesus and Muhammed did change what "their god" wanted from their people, which is where all this "i&#39;m right, you&#39;re wrong" comes from.

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So it&#39;s not unbelievable to think that those three worship the same god, however Jesus and Muhammed did change what "their god" wanted from their people, which is where all this "i&#39;m right, you&#39;re wrong" comes from.

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Thank u &#33; :D

well as i said, you may have all started with the same god but you all worship different gods now.