God

Now i haven't read all 27 pages of the posts but i am surprised that you ellusionist haven't brought up in your quest for being right the big bang theory and/or the "golden/divine ratio." These 2 things support the theory of religion (yes i am calling it a theory cus thats really all that it is) cus think about it for more then 2 seconds. the big bang states that the entire universe came from a spec so infestesmaly small and dense and then all of a sudden just explosivly expanded. Now how does science explain it, well it doesn't. Also the golden/divine ratio or phi or 1.61803399 (whichever you feel like calling it) is seen throughout nature in many many species including the human race. I don't remember how exactly they compute everything but it is HARDCORE evidence as I would call it. This number seems to allusion to there being a higher power. And how does science explain it, well once again it doesn't. A smart scientist will tell you it depends on which relegion you are on how you explain the rest. But now moving on.....

Did you know that there is serious scientific theories about biblical events. Look at the 7 plagues of egypt. It can all be explained by one thing, a volcanic explosion in some neighboring country. IMO, and some scientists, is that moses was in biblical times what we would today call a scientist. Once again moving on.....

Elusionest I am going to ask you only one question. Do you know anything about religion at all? If you read any non-biased religious history book that you will find that most religions were created, yes created, by men to help control the people over which they ruled, and also to give them a source of power. I mean think about it. Which do you think that people would rather go to war for.....GOD, or just some king. So a lot of people got to use religion as an excuse to fight for a cause. Also think about christianity. Do you know how it really started. I mean after Jesus's death of course, sure you can read the bible and find out a little. But what i mean is do you know how the actual church started? It all started with catholisism. And do you know what that was for.....POWER. The catholic church more or less held power over Europe. It wasn't until the last 200 years or so that it has really lost it's power. And I also have an opinion at what religion should be, it shouldn't be this oh if you don't follow this one you will burn in hell for all eternity, but rather this is how you should live your life. NE ways that all I have to say on this subject, cept I do have to say that i am rather intrigued on this topic so i will probably active on it. So Elusionist I challenge you to find a real argument.


'Later for Now

You go to Darwin's book The Orgin of the Species which was published in 1859?

No one goes back to Newtons first publishings to learn about current scientific understanding on gravity. No one goes back to Einstein's first publishings about relativity when understanding current scientific undertstanding about relativity. Why is this? because over time science tests the initial ideas and based on observation and testing refine them.

Your basing your understanding on the argument of evolution on the very initial public publishing that occured over 150 years ago!

This shows your total lack of understanding on how science works and on how scientific research occurs.

The only reason I am mentioning the book "History of the Disk World Part III" is because it is written for non scientific people (ie. lay people) and explains in detail how the book "The Origin of the Species" came into existance, how the ideas have progressed and the current standing of Evolution in Science today. It also discusses the biggest arguments from Religious circles against Evolution and talks about Inteligent Design. The book takes the view point of Evolution, but it is good for people of all view points because it expalins a lot of where current understanding of all viewpoints have come from.

So before you sprout out with some other copied ideas from others, why dont you do some research and reading yourself. For a person willing to debate, you are very closed minded in reading anything other than that published in your own religious context.

Exactly .... Science .. nowadays r proving the Evolution Theory is just Crap .. like for example the Humen DNA Structure is to complex it couldnt be imerged by chance and life is to complex .. to come from a stupid Random Things ... this is impossible .. by logic ..

and i saw the debate in CNN with larry king with the president of the american Athiests .. again 3 scholars of diff religion (Judi, Chris, Islam) .. she's have no Answers at ALL !! .. she was humilated and crushed in the debate .. because athiest cant answer shit !

so if the president of the Athiest Club didnt read books like u said .. then why do i even bother lol !!

Religious leaders depend on charisma and oral skills, its a core part of their job requirement.

There is no 'spokesperson' for people who do not beleive in religion, and scientists develop analystical skills, not oral skills.

So a debate on the Larry King show isn't going to convince me of anything.

Also you never answered what I raised, your basing your understanding on evolutionism based on your own religious based publishings saying that its wrong. You have never obtained an independant view of evolution so your entire logic is flawed due to the bias of the information you base your arguments upon.

The fact that you continualy change teh subject and object of what you talk abot in trying to prove your right shows that you dont even bother to try and address points that are raised. A common trait of religious people when faced with a difficult answer is to change the conversation onto an area they feel more comfortable in arguing, hence your deflection to the larry king show.

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Also you never answered what I raised, your basing your understanding on evolutionism based on your own religious based publishings saying that its wrong. You have never obtained an independant view of evolution so your entire logic is flawed due to the bias of the information you base your arguments upon.

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No NO ... from Science itself not my Religion !!

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So a debate on the Larry King show isn't going to convince me of anything.

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im not trying to convince u .. but they Have NO ANSWERS FOR NOTHING .. thats the POINT !! .. THEY JUST BLAH BLAH .. and nothing

OK THEN U TELL ME ABOUT THE HuMEN DNA STRUCTURE .. AND SHOW ME HOW DID IT HAPPEN FROM THE BIGGING ?! BECAUSE IF SCIENCE CANT ANSWER THAT .. MAYBE U DO !!?

You dont even provide sources for your comments, and all these 'video proofs' and links you provide are information provide by people with a religious agenda. Dont try and sell me the idea that you dont get that information from people who hold the same beleifs as you.

Start answering my post about how your basing your understanding of Evolution on the publishings of Darwin over 150 years ago and have not read a single book, white paper or published work that is not from a religious biased source in your understanding of evolution.

You allow your view to be only controled by your religious environment, without stepping out of that bias to see if there is another view point that could be true. You dont perform proper testing of the ideas you hold, you only repeat what you have read in your religious context, as being good argument against people who dont beleive in your religion.

UR DOIN THE SAME THING IN THE ATHIEST PRESPECTIVE !! .. UR NOT READING WHAT IM SHOWING U .. AND IM NOT READING THE BOOKS UR SHOWING ME .. SO ITS SAME SHIT !!

Human dna really isn't that much different from apes, but you knew that already right.

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Human dna really isn't that much different from apes, but you knew that already right.

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I SAID TELL ME ABOUT THE HuMEN DNA STRUCTURE .. AND SHOW ME HOW DID IT HAPPEN FROM THE BIGGING FROM THE ORIGIN ?! BECAUSE IF SCIENCE CANT ANSWER THAT .. MAYBE U DO !!?

I can't explain it cus i don't have right in front of me for one, for another I didn't memorize, and another i am not a scientist. I am merly a person who can actually say things that are backed by understanding and not faith.