God

sorry mate, but truth is not a democracy.

Many years ago the majority of people on earth beleived that earth was the centre of the solar system. before that they beleived that the earth is flat. they even believed that the brain is only for cooling the blood and is a worthless organ.

The number of people that beleive in something doesn't make it correct, it doesn't make it the truth.

And btw, I never called people who have faith in a beleif system stupid, i just beleive that their faith isn't based on fact.

As for famous people who are Athiests, well have a gander at these names:

Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire"
Benjamin Franklin
Napoleon Bonaparte
Charles Robert Darwin
Abraham Lincoln
Edgar Allan Poe
Thomas Henry Huxley
Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain"
Ambrose Bierce
Friedrich Nietzsche
Thomas Edison
Sigmund Freud
George Bernard Shaw
Pierre Curie
Marie Curie
Frank Lloyd Wright
Ralph Vaughn William
Leon Trotsky
Albert Einstein
Virginia Woolf
DH Lawrence
Sir Alfred Hitchcock
Ernest Hemingway
Walter "Walt" Disney
George Orwell
Howard Hughes
Robert A. Heinlein
Katherine Hepburn
Burt Lancaster
Isaac Asimov
Gene Roddenberry
Charles Schultz
John Lennon
Frank Zappa
Douglas Adams

and thats just a list of some famous dead people, if you want i can post plenty of alive people who have stated that they dont believe in god.

All I am saying is that belief in a god or disbeleif in a god doesn't make you a good or bad person, doesn't mean your intelligent or dumb, doesn't mean your educated or un-educated. It just means that you choose to believe in something without proof, ie. have faith in the unknown and unprovable.

who cares bout famous ppl im talking about Now .. what the majority of ppl that r believing in God .. !? i think alot more than the ones that dont believe

and i told u there r ppl specilized in Religion such islam .. if u dont know anything bout islam then dont Argue lol :D go talk to one of the islamic scholars :D

dont give me some Famous ppl .. oh how bout Tom Cruise is authiest lol .. i mean what the hell ! lol

P.S:

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ie. have faith in the unknown and unprovable.

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and u dont have any proove that is not a book of God and that man made it ? so what ur proof that its not the book of God u Tell me ?! :D

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MetalSkin* Posted Today, 07:39 PM
*
The idea that you need faith to beleive in a fact is contradictory, but the idea that you need faith to beleive in the unknown and unknowable required faith, faith in something with no evidence.

So lets stop pretending that you have evidence, lets just call your beleif systems a faith based belief system and then i will be happy.

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You shouldnt settle for being an atheist. You are obviously educated but you are limiting yourself. You criticise those who have Faith for believing without evidence, but why would you need evidence when you have Faith. It clearly states many times that God spoke to Prophets and appeared to many through angels, and many prohphets were instructed by God to be scribes for God and to write down as he instructed.

Metalskin why do you choose to believe that no God exists. Instead of giving points on why God doesnt exist you choose to find a reason that he does. You sell yourself short when you just say that NO GOD EXISTS yet you have no proof that he doesnt exist.

I cant believe that you two (ellusionist and KRAZEE) dont see what you are doing.

You are the same as MetalSkin only on the other side of the fence. You cant sit and claim that you are right and say that metal is simply not open minded. YOU, truly, are not open minded to the idea that a god MIGHT NOT exist, and really I think that scares you.

Have you ever thought, what if there is no god? What would your life be worth then if there really is no god and you've spent so much time with your faith only to die and find out there was nothing? How happy would you be then? Having missed out on SO MUCH of life simply because your faith tells you you shouldnt do it.

And ellusionist, keep your shit together bro, you get on my case again with this Rambo shit and the debate is going to get too ugly to deal with. I never once said this is what its like to be a man. Thats simply what its like to LIVE LIFE, to its fullest at that. Keep your shit straight and dont get off on these insults because you're only making yourself and your entire argument look foolish. Lets keep it civil and steer away from the name calling... seems to me this is how wars get started.

As far as you're claiming that you dont want a list of "famous" people... do you even know who half of those people are?

Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire"
Charles Robert Darwin
Friedrich Nietzsche
Sigmund Freud
Marie Curie
Albert Einstein

Look them up to start, and if you can find the time, look up the rest. You've just said that the opinion of some of the worlds most valued minds is irrelevant. The true definition of an intellectual is someone with a well rounded education, studying christianity and islam only leaves you out of the loop, behind the rest of the world in the sense that everyone else has so much more perspective than you. Look em up and then show some respect.

Ill see you again when I feel the need.

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Originally posted by tabloid@Apr 16 2005, 03:56 PM
this is what its like to be a man...Thats simply what its like to LIVE LIFE, to its fullest at that...seems to me this is how wars get started.

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so your saying that not one of the 17000 soldiers over in Iraq believe in God at all? I think that they truly are men and they can't 'live life' if they are in a war every day of their lives....seeing people die right before them..and your saying that your a 'man' and your sitting up in Canada fending yourself off from the evil penguins that might blow your head off right? thats what a real man is right?...your wrong..and I am open minded that there 'might' not be a God..but I choose to believe that their is..

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Originally posted by XxBLPxX HaVeN@Apr 16 2005, 03:15 PM
and your saying that your a 'man' and your sitting up in Canada fending yourself off from the evil penguins that might blow your head off right? thats what a real man is right?

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You got a problem with Canada feel free to drive your punk ass up here and we'll sort it out. But... if your not enough of a MAN to do it, I'll understand, these days kids are too "hardcore" to fight, they just sit in their rooms and cry. Dont start with me on this bullshit.

I can honestly say I dont believe you read any of my post lol.
Try again.
Get the whole quote next time princess.
"I never once said this is what its like to be a man. Thats simply what its like to LIVE LIFE, to its fullest at that."

Lol...this is like...getting big...lol im a reincarnataion person....*i cant spell ^_^*

ok...yeah..my eyes are a little messed up and I'm really tired from last night..but still your saying that's how you live life to its fullest..so therefore you must be a 'man' to live life to its fullest..otherwise you won't be able to do drugs, sex, and whatnot..thats your defination of being a 'man' and 'living life to its fullest' I suppose right? so...how could a little kid/boy do that..so you must be a man to do that properly...thats my basic point..plus my post to your original post..

btw thought you said you weren't going to be name calling

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Originally posted by tabloid@Apr 16 2005, 03:56 PM
Lets keep it civil and steer away from the name calling...

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Oh yeah..why don't we be civil about this and not start a little war about this ourselves...as you said before^^

and I don't like Cananda to much either..only been there once and that was 10 years ago...and why would I drive up there to a place I dislike..where its freezing cold, when I can stay where I live and be fine?

btw when did I ever SAY I was a MAN?..and why are name calling so much?..lets see: princess, punkass..

because you jumped in where you werent invited lol
the statement I made was to ellusionist. I went off on you because you started harassing Canada out of nowhere. As far as it being freezing... Its 19 degrees (66.2 if you're American) at 5:15pm on April 16th. Id say its rather nice out.
I never said anything about being a man, that was something ellusionst brought up. So really, you can drop it now since it has nothing to do with anything.

As far as the name calling, I said that to Ellusionist, you're on your own lol.

:huh: fine..I'll stay out if I'm to much of a threat to ya :huh:

man when i put my evedince between Science and the Quran .. nobody Talked shit .. not tabloid or Metalskin .. about the Nebula Rose and etc. ..

What! ... u have no answer to that or what !?

i put all the proofs and more ... bu tabloid and metalskin .. didnt give me any Proof that GOD DONT EXIST !! ?

For some reason...NoOne cares....this post is gonna die sooner or later you know

u Want Another Scientific Proof Here u Go:

Let us imagine ourselves standing in a laboratory stocked with beakers and test tubes containing all sorts of chemical compounds. Then suppose an earthquake has just occurred upsetting the shelved vessels, sending their contents spilling onto the laboratory floor. It would be a very strange coincidence indeed to find new life forms generating themselves where none had existed before.

You might say, 'Your analogy didn't account for time - these organisms need time to evolve.' We ask, 'How much time should we have allowed? Was there enough time since the beginning of the universe to allow for their self-induced formation?'

Let's hear from Swiss mathematician Charles Eugene Jai. In an experiment aimed at answering this very question, Jai set out to calculate the probability of the random formation of a single protein molecule. Jai 'helped' the situation by assuming the existence of formative elements, and by selecting a protein consisting of only 2,000 atoms (An average protein might consist of 32,000 atoms or more). Jai also assumed that the protein would consist of only 2 unique formative atoms.

He determined the value of probability by considering the size of the material and the time necessary for the random formation to occur. He calculated that the probability of forming even a simplified protein molecule was approximately 1 in 5 x 10 e+320 !

The size of the material necessary to produce that almost zero probability would have been a sphere with a diameter of approximately 6 x 10 e+176 miles - about 10 e+63 times bigger than the imagined size of the universe. Finally, the time necessary for the molecule to form was 10 e+243 billion years. This was far greater than the supposed age of the universe - only about 2 billion years.

He concluded that the universe was neither old enough, nor big enough to allow for the random formation of even a simple protein molecule. It was impossible for the universe to have created itself, and for life to randomly form. We must then consider another course. There is a Creator who created the universe.

I wish to make it clear that I have never ridiculed someone for their faith. I have never made out that someone who believes in a god is stupid and I do not beleive anyoine has the right to judge someone because of both social and religious stereotypes.

I cannot prove that god doesn't exist, and I cannot prove that god exists, neither can you.

As such until such time that prove of the existance of god is evidenced, I chose not to beleive in any religion that claims text written by man are the word of god.

The bottom line is there is no proof, and without proof i am not going to rearrange my life to suit those who feel that they have a mandate from god to tell me how i should live my life.

No one here has tried to prove that I'm wrong when I claim the evidence that is presented here is circular in argument with no independant proof other than their own texts.

Unfortunatly it is obvious that others in here feel that name calling, not reading posts fully and replying with totaly irrelivent facts leads is the correct way to convince someone of their concept of God and Religion.

As such I conclude that this thread is pointless, I see no point in expressing my views when others are not open minded enough to consider the points I raise or even to read fully what I type. Unfortunatly this is often the case with both religion and idealogy, so I will now bow out of this thread.

Well...there is a big discussion about god these days. How does one know there is a god? No one can prove that there is or that there isn't. Its called faith.

You blindly trust and beilieve is somethign u cant feel touch taste hear or see. Do you trust ure parents word that they love you without any proof? I do...i dont know about others but i feel trust is what life revolves around...if you trust someone...

and they brake it...its as if u smacked them in the faed and despised them. You just gotta have trust...but if you dont wanna trust then its fibe by me...u have ure own free will and u can do as u please.

I wont bash you or make fun of you just beacuse u dont bilieve in the smae thing i do...i will gladly hlpe you in any way possible wether emtionally phsically or spritualy i dont care...i just trust in my god when he says help others love one another and beiliev in me as ure christ and savior form sin, death and the devil.

Bam! Marque has decided to join in this "clashing" subject.

"Once..There was this extremely rebellious kid in a school, he would always bully the other students, and he would love going to the office, just because he thought he was so tough. This kid was the bully of the school, the punk. Lets call him Ben.
One day, during recess he shoved a kid down..Hard, and started a fight. The strict teacher caught him,
"Ben, what do you think you are doing?! Come with me to the office, at once!"
The teacher took the rebellious child to the office, and sat him down at the chair in front of the desk, just as the principal walked in. The principal asks,
"What can we do with you? Will you not listen to, or obey any authority?"
"Nope!" The kid replied, "I make my own rules!"
"So you are just a bad kid."
"Exactly."
"You don't deserved to be punished"
"What?"
"I am going to give you, what I like to call..grace"
"What’s grace?"
The principal then asked the teacher to bring him his stick, (you know, they one they punish the kids with ;) ) and she brought it to him, and handed it to him.
At this moment the kid got afraid,
"Give me what you got!"
So the principal handed the stick to the boy, Ben, and he rolled up his sleeves.
"Ok, hit me", asked the principal
The boy was very confused at this, and asked why he wants this.
"Hit me." He said again
So the boy began to lightly hit his bare arms.
"Harder!" the principal cried
So the boy began to smack him very hesitantly.
The boys eyes teared up, as he began to draw blood from the mans arms, and he continued to say.
"You don't deserve to be punished for your deeds, so every time you misbehave I will take the pain."
The boy began crying, as the man started to yelp in pain.
Eventually, the boy couldn't hit anymore, and he asked,
"Why did you do this? You don't deserve this! I deserve the punishment for my wrong doings!"
"This is grace. I am giving you grace. I have taken upon myself the punishment for your wrong doings."

This exact same analogy is the same with Jesus on the cross. God sooo love his children (us) So much, that he gave His only Son. His only Son. The only Son that he had. He gave him to be killed for us. To take upon our sins, so that we need not be punishment, and condemned to hell for eternity. He loves us so much, that he literally died because of our wrong doings. There is no greater man than this that he lay down his life for his friends. God wants to be our best friend. Yet you who refuse to have faith and believe reject the free gift of Jesus upon the cross. No one is worthy, no NOT ONE. All have sinned a fallen short of the glory of God.
Yet....in while we were still sinners, CHRIST DIED FOR US. He takes upon your sin, your secret sinful desires, and every wrong you wallow in.

Faith is believing in things you cannot see correct. But..can you feel it? Can you feel the love of God; can you see the love of God? Take a look around you, God is so great, his grace, and mercy and power preside over all.
Where did you get your great artistic abilities? The power within God. But how can a God so great and loving condemn you to hell? It is not He who condemns..but it is you yourself. You condemn yourself by not trusting and believing in His word. Don't be a doubter like St. Thomas...he had to literally see the Risen Savior with his own eyes, and touch Him just to believe.

John 20:24-29 " "Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.”

A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” "


Remember, Jesus also said...
John 6:47"I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. "

John 10:17 "The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life–only to take it up again."

John 12:25 "The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life."

John 14:6
"Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "

i... cant.... resist...... resistance.... is.... futile..... i... must.... respond....

The above post supports my argument in its entirity. Most religions use emotion and not fact to get people to join. It's about how do you feel about this story, doesn't it make you feel that our religion must be true? They tell a story that pulls at the heart strings, no logic, just emotions.

And then to top it off, they quote from a book that was written by man, no proof that the comments in the book are true.

Do we tell stories when telling someone about electricity or celestrial mechanics? No, we tell the facts and say that if you dont beleive what we are stating, then feel free to validate what we have said with experiments and research. And if you find contary evidence in your investigations then others will check and if corroberated then the new evidence that you have found is recognised.

I'm sorry guys, even though i bowed out of the conversation, feel good stories are not going to make me 'feel' as though there is a god, its only going to make me more frustrated that elequent people with charisma and personality continue to make people change their life not based on fact but based on their personal abilities to convince someone of what they feel is right.

Yea, I never usually use stories when I write stuff like that, ever for that exact same reason. I agree with you its not good to play with emotions it that way. I just happened to like that story. But I did back it up with facts! But what you want is solid prood, eh? Look under your feet. Solid proof, in my mind, actually that God exists. I know that is not what you are asking or looking for at all, and that we probally look foolish, eh? There is hard evidence and proof that God exists, we don't need it...and that is the problem, people think they need it to believe.

Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” "

I dont think you look foolish, please dont think that i do.

I have some very good friends who are religious and are practicing christains. I have some friends who are spiritualists and others who belive in ghosts and UFO's.

I don't find their beleives foolish and I dont find them foolish.

However I do know that they have no proof for their beleifs. In most cases they beleive because they choose to for a variety of reasons, often it boils down to 'just because I know its true'. When analysed, the knowing is admited as a feeling. To know one must have proof its true, to beleive one must feel its true.

This is the same argument from scientists who beleived that space travel was impossible, that because in space it is a void, how can pushing propellent out the back end of a rocket possibly work when there is nothing to push against. They felt that it was impossible to work, they didn't have facts, just a feeling. The other scientists who beleived it would work, also had no proof. In this case the later were proven correct. Both scientists were highly respected and still are. The problem was that at the time there were theories, just no proof.

Currently there are theories about ghosts, spirit beings, a creator, ESP, God (in all the various religions), etc. But there is no proof.

What I am suprised at is the lack of using nature to attempt to use as proof that there is an existance of a creator. There are plants that are soley depedant on a specific insect, and the insect is soley dependant on the plant to survive.

Personaly I don't beleive this is proof of a creator, but I am familar with the argument and it is very powerful. Also note that this doesn't prove any particular religion, all you can use it for is to argue the case against the pure evolutionary model.

Ok. I respect Metalskin's point of view that suggests that there is no God due to the fact that there is no 'real' proof. I have a question for you though - Have you read the Bible, have you studied it in search of Evidence for yourself? Yes, It was written by a man, but that doesnt rule it out of being evidence to suggest that God exists! I challenge you to read the Bible and you can ask me any question relating to this topic and I will answer it as best as I can.

You have made a very valid point but from your POV their is no God but in that case this is where Faith comes in. Christians have their evidence (the Bible) and also Faith. With these 2, Christians base their religion upon the principles set forth in the Bible and the Faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 11:1
[ By Faith ] Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Mate, i have read the bible most prob. more times than you. I even went to Theology (Bible school). I was heavily, and I mean heavily involved in different churches in my younger years.

However after a lot of experiance, analysis and thought, i have come to the conclusion that all of my time involved in religion was based on emotional and social content.

I'm sorry but I will not accept the bible as evidence. Man decided what is in the Bible. Just like man decided whats in the Islamic, Budist, Morman, Jehova Witness, etc texts. A book is not proof, many religions have them, some as old as if not older than the bible.

Faith is a beleif in something which there is no proof, faith alone is not proof. Most often faith is mixed up in emotions as well, as is common with humans.

And this isn't just faith in religion but can be applied to ideology, which includes Marxism, Maoism, Fascism, etc.

I'm not emotional about my beleifs, to me the existance of god should be like the existance of electricity. Either its true or not. Religion, which is the worship of a god, is an emotional act.

I dont think you can honeslty argue against MetalSkin's posts. Somoene of his experience is exactly what Ellusionist keeps talking about, yet his perspective is ignored half the time.

We're going in circles now, I think we need a new point of view in order to add something to the discussion.

And as far as my last couple posts; please excuse the attitude I had while writing them. I cant change it now, but I was definitely not myself when I said those things. Bad moods and ex-girlfriends can do strange things to a personality. My apologies.

hehe no worries Tabloid, such is the vagrancies of the human nature :D

metalskin and tabloid ... none of u r reading my proofs .. why is it becuase u cant reply to it or what ?! :D

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tabloid* Posted Today, 04:17 PM
* I dont think you can honeslty argue against MetalSkin's posts. Somoene of his experience is exactly what Ellusionist keeps talking about, yet his perspective is ignored half the time.

We're going in circles now, I think we need a new point of view in order to add something to the discussion.

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It is far easier to argue that there is no God. There are limitless amounts of ideas and theories on why God does exist. So therefore you cant argue his point but I cant see you arguing ellusionists points. He gave you evidence but you gave no repsonse! Why?

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MetalSkin* Posted Today, 03:09 PM
* Mate, i have read the bible most prob. more times than you. I even went to Theology (Bible school). I was heavily, and I mean heavily involved in different churches in my younger years.

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Why did you give it up or choose not to follow it? Did you just suddenly realise all the teachings you have learnt were written by men and were deemed unsuitable teachings to follow?

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It is far easier to argue that there is no God. There are limitless amounts of ideas and theories on why God does exist. So therefore you cant argue his point but I cant see you arguing ellusionists points. He gave you evidence but you gave no repsonse! Why?

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THANK U KRAZEE !! For making this Point !!all of the evedince and proofs that i put they could say nothing bout it !! they just skip it !!

Some Unmistakable Signs of the Creator
</span>
Allah said in the Quran:

53. We* (Allah) shall show them Our Signs on the horizons and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that it is the Truth. Is it not sufficient that the Lord is Witness over all things?

(41:53)

* One of the usages of &#39;we&#39; in Arabic is for glorifying and indicating the greatness of a person. Here it indicates greatness and not plurality.

<span style=\'color:blue\'>We live in an amazing universe. It is a universe peculiarly balanced, and purposefully tempered as if to provide a safe host for living creatures.

According to modern astronomers, the universe is expanding. They hold that if gravity had been only slightly stronger, it would have overtaken expansion very early and caused the universe to collapse. Had gravity been slightly weaker, universe expansion would have become a runaway process, not allowing time for the formation of galaxies and stars.

If either of these had occurred, there would never have been an Earth on which creatures could live. This universe seems designed, even meticulously tailored to provide suitable conditions for living. If other basic ratios and constants had been just slightly different, the universe would not have been favorable to our existence.

If, for instance, the strong and weak nuclear forces were slightly stronger relative to the electromagnetic forces, hydrogen would not exist in its ordinary form. This would mean that heavier elements, such as carbon and oxygen - two of the essential building blocks of life - would never have existed.

The strength of gravity is crucial to the existence of life in the universe in another way. If it were weaker, then it could not crush the material in a star the size of the Sun with enough force to ignite its thermonuclear reactions. Only very massive stars would shine, and such stars would probably have too short lifespan to allow for the development of life.

These indications that the universe has been arranged to favor the appearance and survival of life has been taken very seriously by certain scientists. Prominent among them is astronomer Brandon Carter. Modern science estimates that it has taken 4 billion years for human beings to evolve from unicellular life forms. Carter has calculated that the average period for any evolution of this magnitude should take much longer - about 10 billion years. That is longer than the lifespan of a Sun-sized star, and much longer than the period of life-favorable conditions on Earth.

It would seem that intelligent life appeared on Earth despite its high improbability. We are again pulled towards recognizing the Creator.

Allah?? God is the only one true God...the great I AM and the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Jesus is the way the truth and the life, no one comes to The Father but through Him...therefore, all other "ways" are of the devil. The narrow path is a hard path, but leads straight to God.

lol someone other than me make La Marque feel foolish please.

Anyway, yall are right I dont argue ellusionists points half the time, but thats mostly because they&#39;re usually just huge quotes from some website or something else and I just dont bother to read them cause they&#39;re huge and most of the time they just say a bunch of shit and then say "thats why we believe in god" and really its not worth the time.

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Originally posted by tabloid@Apr 17 2005, 11:42 AM
lol someone other than me make La Marque feel foolish please.

Anyway, yall are right I dont argue ellusionists points half the time, but thats mostly because they&#39;re usually just huge quotes from some website or something else and I just dont bother to read them cause they&#39;re huge and most of the time they just say a bunch of shit and then say "thats why we believe in god" and really its not worth the time.

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:P

Actually there is no hard evidence that God exists...if you need solid, physical proof that he exists, the kind that you are looking for...then you won&#39;t find it. The proof that I have, and I know it is not what you are looking for, is the proof that He loves us enough to send his only son to die for us.
The Bible says to test the spirits...so go ahead. Test &#39;em.

hey Marque ... Allah means God in Arabic .. its no diff God .. he&#39;s the only God of the Prophets so dont Get Confused he&#39;s another God :D

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Anyway, yall are right I dont argue ellusionists points half the time, but thats mostly because they&#39;re usually just huge quotes from some website or something else and I just dont bother to read them cause they&#39;re huge and most of the time they just say a bunch of shit and then say "thats why we believe in god" and really its not worth the time.

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Thats The Lamest Excuse i have Ever Heard lol &#33;&#33; :D but thats ok .. lol

Well Anyways They Ask For Proofs .. and when i post the "Scientifec" Proof for them they dont wanna Read it &#33; lol :D

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Originally posted by Marque@Apr 17 2005, 12:37 PM
Actually there is no hard evidence that God exists...if you need solid, physical proof that he exists, the kind that you are looking for...then you won&#39;t find it. The proof that I have, and I know it is not what you are looking for, is the proof that He loves us enough to send his only son to die for us.
The Bible says to test the spirits...so go ahead. Test &#39;em.

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Oh no no, I just meant about the whole Allah not being God thing. Ellusionist explained it lol.

Anyway on to Ellusionist.
what your missing is the fact that what you post isnt "proof" in any way. Its merely opinion and lack of a better answer. You need to wrap your head around that first I think. You&#39;ve got yourself in this nice little world wherein you believe whatever anyone who "studies religion" tells you. I think you would benefit a lot if you just opened your mind to the possibility that God doesnt exist. And you dont know me or my life, so dont tell me I need to do the same, because for 3 years I attended religious youth groups and bible classes with my friends who are practicing Christians and then after being educated about both sides of the story Ive made my decision. You seem to be jaded by your Quran; and I know I dont know you or your life either, Im saying this based on what you&#39;ve said time and time again counts as proof.

No ONE. And I mean no one knows if God is real or not. So stop wasteing y&#39;alls time trying to get the other to believe or not. No one has exact proof of God. NO ONE. The bible is another book expressed to God. Just like the churches. You believe what you want, and others will do the same. Stop taking excerts from stupid ass scientific explainations adn the bible. No one knows, :P.

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Oh no no, I just meant about the whole Allah not being God thing. Ellusionist explained it lol.

Anyway on to Ellusionist.
what your missing is the fact that what you post isnt "proof" in any way. Its merely opinion and lack of a better answer. You need to wrap your head around that first I think. You&#39;ve got yourself in this nice little world wherein you believe whatever anyone who "studies religion" tells you. I think you would benefit a lot if you just opened your mind to the possibility that God doesnt exist. And you dont know me or my life, so dont tell me I need to do the same, because for 3 years I attended religious youth groups and bible classes with my friends who are practicing Christians and then after being educated about both sides of the story Ive made my decision. You seem to be jaded by your Quran; and I know I dont know you or your life either, Im saying this based on what you&#39;ve said time and time again counts as proof.

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im taking proofs from scholars .. and ppl that have more knowledge 10 time more than u and me .. so u dont have the right to say its not a proof .. because these ppl studying this thing there hole life .. so not a teenager like u .. which have no knowledge can say that bout them ... PEACE &#33;

everyone here who is trying to argue that they have proof of the existance of god keeps falling back to their religious texts.

I&#39;m sorry but religious texts are only proof if you can prove the texts are factual. One fact in the text doesn&#39;t make all other commentary in the texts factual, hence why in law only the current crime is allowed in evidence, not past crimes.

And to Illusionist, your attempts at proving your texts are in fact the word of god are circular in argument, you keep quoting from the texts to prove its valid, or you use biased opinions about proving individual quotes to prove the whole lot is true.

I&#39;m sorry but no one here is able to prove that god exists. And most &#39;Christians&#39; will admit that, its even taught in most christian circles that there is no proof, that beleif in god is an act of faith cause there isn&#39;t any proof.

but opening up myself emotionaly to a non subjective test to determine the existance of god is on the same level of determining if tarot cards work, if spirit giudes exists, if there are ghosts or spirits, if ESP exists and if Elvis is still alive.

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Originally posted by eLLuSioNiST@Apr 17 2005, 04:13 PM
im taking proofs from scholars .. and ppl that have more knowledge 10 time more than u and me .. so u dont have the right to say its not a proof .. because these ppl studying this thing there hole life .. so not a teenager like u .. which have no* knowledge can say that bout them ... PEACE &#33;

[snapback]37801[/snapback]

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What a waste of a life lol.
How can you say I have no knowledge based on what I said before your post?
And Im not a teenager, get your "facts" straight lol

haha ok :D ... i leave the others to answer this iif u have damn knowledge or not Mr. "21&#39; years old .. u r barly legal to drink "Kid" .. lol

Man just Say u dont wanna Read my Proofs because u dont know how to reply me then haha

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I dont mean to be a dick, but what has god really EVER done for you?

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I think the question is really what have you EVER done for God? He died for you. Isn&#39;t that enough? I&#39;m sure he loves us so much he&#39;d be willing to do it again.

And for those of you who haven&#39;t caught on, I&#39;m a heavy believer.