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Do you mean Jesus?Quote:
Originally posted by Striomic@Apr 18 2005, 12:29 AM
I think the question is really what have you EVER done for God? He died for you. Isn't that enough? I'm sure he loves us so much he'd be willing to do it again.
And for those of you who haven't caught on, I'm a heavy believer.
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Yes I do. Thank you for correcting me.Quote:
Originally posted by Juicy@Apr 18 2005, 12:37 AM
Do you mean Jesus?
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Its not about what god has done for you, its about proving there is a god.
The concept that god gave his only son to die so that we may live only holds weight if you beleive that there is a god and that the bible (christian mainstream that is) is the word of god and should be taken literaly.
I'm sorry but i havn't seen any proof that god exists in this thread yet. I also havn't seen any proof that the Bible is the word of god, any more than I have seen any proof that any other religious text is absolutly 100% correct in everything it says, including its self impossed authority as the word of god.
MetalSkin did u Read my Posts or Not ? u did not answer any of Them That i posted u want More Science Proofs that God is the Creator of Everything ?!
P.S: all of my Proofs Were Science Proofs to prove that God Created everything :D
ohhhh science. i guess science can prove anything. guys it looks like we were all wrong :(
Did you read my replies eLLuSioNiST? I think not. actualy a lot of your posts prove that you dont read carefuly the posts that you reply to.
All you have done is take out one scripture at a time and from the scriture try and prove that its evidence that it must know the truth. and from this one possible grain of truth, you then attempt to state that all of the book must be true because it contains a couple of truths (according to you).
I'm sorry mate but we have had plenty of conversation about Noah's Ark, about the development of a human foetus, etc. and in the end it is normaly you who chooses to ignore what i have posted and not answer my comments.
Dont start posting those 'scientific proofs' because even if you manage to prove that one fact in your religious text is true, it doesn't prove that all of it is true.
Fact/Truth isn't obtained by association.
But seriously, what have you got to lose? If you are right about there is no God, then you have nothing to worry about. But if there is, then you are doomed to an eternity in Hell with NO INTERNET CONNECTIONS!
You are really wrong. allah is not my God...not at all. He is NOT the same God. Not at all...no "god of the prophets" the Great I AM is the one and only true god. There are NO other gods.Quote:
Originally posted by eLLuSioNiST@Apr 17 2005, 03:21 PM
hey Marque ... Allah means God in Arabic .. its no diff God .. he's the only God of the Prophets so dont Get Confused he's another God :D
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very funny, but its not as simple as that.
if you decide that there is enough evidence that there is a god/supreme being, then you have to decide which religion, if any, is the correct one.
And once you decide that one of the religions is the correct one, then you have to change your life style accordingly.
So this is a very big deal. Also you can't just go beleiving religions randomly as a form of after death insurance, as most of them propose that they are the only one and true religion.
so in the face of no evidence of the existance of god, other than some old texts that no one can prove are 100% correct, i can see no reason why i should beleive in a god, let alone take on the burden of following any particular religion.
I'm sorry mate, but lets see you prove it. what weight of evidence do you have that proves your version of religion has any more right to claim its the one and true faith, than any other one?Quote:
Originally posted by Marque@Apr 18 2005, 11:45 AM
You are really wrong. allah is not my God...not at all. He is NOT the same God. Not at all...no "god of the prophets" the Great I AM is the one and only true god. There are NO other gods.
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Jehovah Witnesses
Church of Scientology
Christain/Catholic
Christain/Evangelical
Christain/Pentacostal
Islam/various flavours
etc
all claim to be the one and true. though some in christain and islamic circles will say that their god is the same god, just that some misguided people have the wrong book.
But others even in the Christain faith will fight over doctrin, over which is the one and true bible (king james vs revised, etc), and even whether the Catholic church is the antichrist or part of the christain faith.
so please, before you try and tell me that your correct, prove to me why the others are incorrect and why you are correct, based not on your scripture, but based on evidence that is independant of your relgious texts.
the diff between islam and christian is .. that they believe that jesus was the son of God .. and we believe that Jesus is a Prophet .. and the bible was interpretated .. That Why out Quran Came to correct this .. out prophet his miracle was the Quran so it wont be interpretated through Generation that r to come ..
after jesus was ended .. ppl splitted into three groups .. Group 1 believed that jesus was God .. 2 that jesus was a Son of God .. 3 that jesus was a prophet ..
PLZ READ THIS:</span>
o some Muslims, the term “Son of God” brings up images of a sort of divine being with a goddess wife who together have somehow produced a child. When Christians use the term in reference to Jesus, they immediately assume that the Christians are committing blasphemy by stating that God has participated in some sort of sexual union with another god – a goddess wife.
<span style=\'color:green\'> They say: "the most gracious has betaken a son!" Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it in the skies are about to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, that they attributed a son to the Most Gracious, for it is not consonant with the majesty of the Most Gracious that he should beget a son. (The Qur'an, 5:88-92).
This is naturally a ridiculous scenario and is a false assumption. No where in the Bible does it say that God had relations with anyone to produce a literal son, nor has Christianity taught that God produced a son through any physical act whatsoever. Such a thing is heretical. Nevertheless, the Bible in numerous places calls Jesus the Son of God. But, it does not mean that Jesus is the literal offspring of God.
The Muslims need to as ask what does that term mean, in its historic and biblical context. Instead of imposing upon the biblical term a meaning that is foreign to it, the Muslim should learn what the Bible means by the term and think of it in the context as revealed in the Scriptures where it is used. To not do that would be the same as me taking a term out of the Qur'an, remove it from its Qur'anic context, and applying another meaning to it and then saying what the Qur'an teaches is false. The term “Son of God” is used in different senses in the Bible. But, never does it mean that God has a wife and produces offspring.</span>
<span style=\'color:red\'>
Old Testament usage of the term Son of God
The term “son of God” is used in two main ways in the Old Testament. Neither way denotes any physical relation to God. Rather, the references deal with those who under divine obedience to the call of God. It is used of Israel as a nation through the Exodus. Hosea 11:1 says, “When Israel was a youth I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son.”1 It is also used in reference to angels. Job 1:6 says, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.” Also, in Job 38:7 it says, "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" These are in reference to angels who are created beings and in now way implies literal dependency from God.
New Testament usage of the term Son of God
The Term "Son of God" occurs 47 times in the King James New Testament. In reference to Jesus, it is a title as the heavenly, eternal Son who is equal to God the Father (John 5:18-24). It is Jesus who fully reveals the Father (Matt. 11:27). He is the exact representation of the Father (Heb. 1:1-3), He possesses all authority in heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18), and Jesus had glory with the Father before the world was made (John 17:5).
The Muslim is taught from the Qur'an and therefore cannot accept the fact that Jesus is divine. To the Muslim, that is shirk, blasphemy of the worst kind. But believing it doesn't make it so. To the Christian, and according to the Bible, Jesus is the one who alone saves us from our sins. We cannot earn our way to heaven, perform enough good works to please God, or ever be "sincere enough" in repentance to somehow obtain forgiveness from God. Instead, Christianity is a faith of God's great love and sacrifice for His creation. Jesus, the Son of God, is the divine one who fulfilled prophecies, walked on water, healed the sick, and rose from the dead. Only the Son of God can do these things.
and this proves to me which one is true? neither... you havn't provided any proof that either is factual or non factual
in fact you continue to use your religious texts as the basis of your argument, which i have explained, you cannot do when you havnt' proven its factual.
also herisy is in the eye of the beholder.
Man do u want me to bring Jesus and let him Tell u ... ? so u can believe take it by logic ! jesus is not of son of God and i mentioned why above .. do u want a scientific proof for that too lol !
and i did Proof our Book .. with Science but u didnt reply on none of them ..!
Again ill give u another Scientific Proof and The Quran:
and PLZ REPLY to THIS
Expanding of Cosmos
Before 1929 it was thought that fallacies or bit in haphazard manner seinilar to movement of the molecules of gazes however in 1929 ascintific break though turned this assumption up side down Hable discovered that these millions of phalanxes are gaudily distancing themselves from each other This process of distancing is getting accom plaited in great speed which some times is equal to a fraction of the speed of light Even those fallacies which are near to mear to our glassy (Milk way) with the exception of Andromida, are in contentions process of expansion.This means that the size of the cosmos is in con tenuous expansion . Allah says “And the sky we have created by hands we will enuzde As we know light is formed of seven different colors Each color has awe which has aseptic length vibration .The shortest awe the blue light has the highest vibration whereas the red light has the longest awe but it has the lowest vibration When Hable analyzed the light which comes from the galaxies he has studied he found that in all studied cases, with the exception of Andromida some other near by galaxies there is general widening of the red light . The more widening toward the red more distance of galaxies is from us After this discovering which was made by Hable it became evident that there are huge dark gaps behind these gaps there is a huge gravitational factor which leads to the red widening. Hence the cosmos is expanding from the point of start to the red ray. There fore aOwanic reality which states that “We will envied” has been now confirmed by science which assumes that the cosmos is having beginning from which it expands extends it self Allah says that He created the sky He is the one Who will expand it. This is what is going on now seine billions of years the Cosmos is in a continuos expansion. Many gastronomists have confirmed this fact. There fore it became an unchallenged and confirmed scientific fact. The cosmos is expanding the Earth is Globular rotates around itself rotates around the sun. All these are revealed in Dawn now since is confirming it Swore Irenic Verses in the light of science.
Illusionist, this is the last time i will say this.
Read back through the posts and see what i have said. I have said over and over again that even if you prove one fact or several facts in your religious text, that doesn't automaticaly make every other statement in your religious text factual.
This is the same basis why most Legal Court systems will not use past convictions as evidence about a current court proceeding. Because past facts dont bear on the current fact being judged.
This is a common concept recognised by scholars on both sides of the line, it isn't something i have conjured up to try and depose what your saying.
So unless you have a way to prove that 100% of your religious text is factual, then refain from using it in your evidence for proof of a god.
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I do agree with you that the idea of a virgin birth beggars beleif.
However on the other side, if you agree to an omnipotent god who created adam from dust or clay or blood (depending on which contradictory scripture you wish to look at) then i'm sure he/she can make a woman pregnant. If their concept of god is correct, then it is possible that they are correct about a virgin birtyh.
You have no proof it didn't happen, just as christans have no proof that it did happen.
ok im gonna say this last thing .. if u can make a book as the Same as the Quran .. im Done ! i will believe that there is no God ! ,,,
if u think ur so smart than .. than do it :D
The book was written how many years ago? find someone from then and i'm sure that they would have been able to write it. You expect me to write it only knowing English? Lets get a tad serious here and use proper arguments instead of something so non measurable.
There's lots of theories about maths code hidden in the old testament of the Christian bible also, doesn't make it true, its all congecture and a matter of opinion.
so ur saying that ppl now r stupid .. and ppl before were smarter that why nobody now can write like it .. will i understand the Quran .. its not like in secret Codes and so on ...
and if ur saying a man wrote it .. then any man could write like it .. its logical..
the Quran is in Arabic .. and everybody understands it .. in the islamic .. world no secret codes no nothing .. but still nobody can write like it ..
P.S: u know that Man is not Perfect ! :D
MetalSkin .. i Strongly recommaned that u Read This .. PLZ DO :D
Link
AND PLZ DO REPLY ON WHAT U READ hope u Read it all :D
He is not the same God. And Ill tell you why, God sent his only Son Jesus to die on the Cross so that those who choose to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus will enter into Heaven. If Islam believes that Jesus is only a mere prophet then that would take the meaning out of God, because he would of never of sent his Son and we would all be going to Hell. Therefore Allah and Yaweh (God's name meaning 'I AM') are not the same.Quote:
QUOTE(eLLuSioNiST @ Apr 17 2005, 03:21 PM)
hey Marque ... Allah means God in Arabic .. its no diff God .. he's the only God of the Prophets so dont Get Confused he's another God biggrin.gif
*
He said it all. The proof you are looking for you wont find. The proof is there but you choose not to accept it but dont say that we dont have proof because its there! The Bible is proof but you choose to not accept it and say it was written by men, is that unreasonably, God using scribes to write his word! How else would humans of recieved the Word of God if it hadnt been for prophets!Quote:
Actually there is no hard evidence that God exists...if you need solid, physical proof that he exists, the kind that you are looking for...then you won't find it. The proof that I have, and I know it is not what you are looking for, is the proof that He loves us enough to send his only son to die for us.
The Bible says to test the spirits...so go ahead. Test 'em.
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.
THERES THE PROOF MAN :D
KRAZEE Scroll Up .. and u will see why Jesus is not Son of God i posted it up :D post #291
The response is actually quite simple: "Elaw", or "ilah" in both Aramaic and Arabic respectively are derived from the mother word "Allah". In Islam, GOD Almighty has 99 Names/Attributes: Most Merciful, The Great, Most Gracious, etc... "Allah" is one of those Holy Names/Attributes. Muslims often refer to GOD Almighty as "Allah", because it is not only His Holy Name, but it also means that He is the Supreme GOD. That is why some English translators of the Noble Quran such as Abdullah Yusuf Ali (may Allah Almighty bless him and rest his soul. Ameen) translate "Allah" in the Arabic Quran as "God" in the English translation for some Noble Verses.Quote:
He is not the same God. And Ill tell you why, God sent his only Son Jesus to die on the Cross so that those who choose to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus will enter into Heaven. If Islam believes that Jesus is only a mere prophet then that would take the meaning out of God, because he would of never of sent his Son and we would all be going to Hell. Therefore Allah and Yaweh (God's name meaning 'I AM') are not the same.
The Aramaic "Elaw" and the Arabic "Allah" are the same. The Aramaic "Elaw" is derived from the Arabic "Allah", and it means "GOD". "Allah" in Arabic also means "GOD", the Supreme GOD Almighty. You can easily see the close similarity in their pronunciation.
if u wanna read more about the Word "Allah" if it means God or not... Here is the Link
Link Here
Many people claim to be prophets, how do you tell which ones are prophets? What test can we perform to tell if they are a prophet? If someone jumps up now and says that they have a revelation from God and are God's chosen messenger and starts writing text, how do you determine that they are telling the truth?Quote:
Originally posted by KRAZEE@Apr 18 2005, 04:15 PM
The Bible is proof but you choose to not accept it and say it was written by men, is that unreasonably, God using scribes to write his word! How else would humans of recieved the Word of God if it hadnt been for prophets!
Please don't quote religious texts saying this or that scripture or quote states how to tell. Because that presumes that your religious text is fact. But you cannot prove that your religious text is fact. Because you cannot prove that the people who wrote it were 'controled' or 'possessed' by God or whatever term you wish to use.
I mean, look at all the miricles through most religious texts. dont see many of those things happening now a days. I don't know the islamic texts, so in Islam there may be an excuse as to why nothing much happens now a days, but I know that there is no excuse in the bible (except maybe one scripture which goes along the lines of "they ask for signs but receive none", a very handy one isn't it?).
as for proof that the Quran is the word of god, based on it being perfect, well...
My first link regards a lot of concepts about the beleif of Islamics that the Qur'an is the word of god and is perfect. Personly i dont like the tone of the article, i think its condecending, but the points are interesting:
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/atheism/109064
Another interesting link is the following. Again I dont like the tone of the web site, but the content is interesting:
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/aparthi...ths_fallacy.htm
The bottom line is that someone within a specific religion will have all these 'proofs' that are generated internaly (ie. within the religion by biased observers or comentators), but never by independant observers or comentators. The perfection of the Qur'an is an example, I'm not aware of any non-Islamic people of agreeing that the Qur'an is perfect. Its a mater of opinion, its not something measurable.
There is no scientific fact that shows the existance of god. There is no scientific fact that shows there is no god. There is no scientific fact that any of the discussed religious texts are 100% proof, and there isn't much scientific fact that they are not.
So as such I conclude that there is too many people selling their religion with no proof. Until someone can come up with scientific fact about proof of god, please stop trying to sell me on your brand of religion.
As me and many others have said Metalskin, the proof you are looking for DOESNT EXIST. Therefore I am not trying to sell you our religion ( not sure about Ellusionist). I am simply conveying my point of view to you as i have said many times before.
I am interested to know however what made you turn from the Christian Faith after your 'studies' of the religion and why you choose to believe God is non existent. Plz answer this I really am interested to know, if you would rather not then please say so. Thanks Metalskin :D
Jesus fulfilled every prophecy given by God's prophets. And Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and The Life, nobody comes to the Father but through Him. All other paths lead to destruction. I cannot PROVE to you that this is the only Way, but I KNOW it is, I would deffinately not be a Christian if I didn't know this truth. I KNOW it is because My God said that he is a jealous God, and that all other gods are evil and of satan. All other religions are of satan. And I am POSTIVE of this. I am only a young guy, so I cannot explain very well, or very much. I cannot give you proof, that isn't based on scripture, that our way is the only way. But have you ever experienced the power of God?Quote:
Originally posted by MetalSkin@Apr 17 2005, 09:52 PM
I'm sorry mate, but lets see you prove it. what weight of evidence do you have that proves your version of religion has any more right to claim its the one and true faith, than any other one?
Jehovah Witnesses
Church of Scientology
Christain/Catholic
Christain/Evangelical
Christain/Pentacostal
Islam/various flavours
etc
all claim to be the one and true.* though some in christain and islamic circles will say that their god is the same god, just that some misguided people have the wrong book.
But others even in the Christain faith will fight over doctrin, over which is the one and true bible (king james vs revised, etc), and even whether the Catholic church is the antichrist or part of the christain faith.
so please, before you try and tell me that your correct, prove to me why the others are incorrect and why you are correct, based not on your scripture, but based on evidence that is independant of your relgious texts.
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"But have you ever experienced the power of God?"
have you?
I have..last Friday to be specific..went to a youth rally for a camp I'll be going to this summer..it was awesome..I felt God move there..thats proof right there..but your not going to believe it..so..why even start the arguement Tab?Quote:
Originally posted by tabloid@Apr 18 2005, 01:15 PM
"But have you ever experienced the power of God?"
have you?
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i feel God all the time at superWOW if you guys know what that is.
u dont have to experience it to proof it ... when i see the sky and stars at night .. always look and say wow .. this is the power of God his Creations Sky, Earth. Stars, Moon, Space, us Humens :DQuote:
"But have you ever experienced the power of God?"
have you?
Just Think of This Try looking up the Stars At night or the moon and say how did he Create this .. its too complex .. its out of our reach .. thats the power of God :D and i have proofs with out the Quran if u want the World didnt Create itself ! :D
the power of god... let me guess, 2000+ people packed into a hall or stadium, music pumping, some guy on stage working the crowd... and here we have tehe 'power or god'
Doesn't matter if its evangelical or pentacostal, its exactlty the same as an Amway Conference, a Self Actualization Rally, a Political Rally, a big Gig for a band....
The reaction is emotional, you can't prove to me what you felt is/was god, all you can prove to me is you felt someone.
Anyway, I'm not realy interested in going through the reasons why I ended up not being involved with christianity. Enough said that when I take away the hype, the emotions, the personalities and social aspect, I'm left with a beleif system that converts people more on emotion than any fact. This is especialy so with the pentacostal movement among the youth (specialy the AOG or associated groups).
Anyway, most beleif systems are not based on logic, just check out the adds in a back of a womans magazine. I'm tempted to say all beleif systems are not based on logic/fact/truth, but I cannot because i dont know or have analysed all the different beleif systems in the world.
Yes it might of been music..there always is..its a way to worship God! I can't cry at anything except something spiritual...and I was weeping my heart out Friday..you want to explain that?
well MetalSkin The Three Basic .. Questions R
1- Who Created The World?
its been scientific proofen than it didnt Create itself
2- who Created Humens?
the humen is too complex .. he have soul with no soul he's and empty shell and i dont think we created ourselves lol and everybody knows the Evolution theory is Wack
3- Why r we Here?
to acknowledge the Creator....we have to have purpose if we r here im sure.. and i dont think the purpose here is just to have fun and play !
these r simple Questions ..if u answer these Q's then thats it .. u'll find ur Answer :D
Sorry mate but I dont know you enough to even attempt to try and explain your emotional reaction to an event like that. I don't want to lessen or cheapen what happened to you at that, this is just my take on it.
I have been to plenty of such events, participated in them and been swept away by them. I even used to be backup vocals on some of the stages. However after long consideration I have decided that there is no way to determine the cause of peoples reactions as being an either an emotional reaction, or the 'movement of the spirit'. This includes such events as speaking in tounges, prophecy, interpritation and being slain in the spirit.
I know how powerful emotions are, and I will not even try and disuade you of what is going on, I know you wont be able to take in everything I say. Just as I wouldn't have been able to when i was in your shoes, its part of being caught up in it.
However with me, once i distanced myself from the emotion and hype, analysed all i had been taught and all i had read, had a very long think about it (took quite a few years, this wasn't a rash choice), i decided as i have stated before.
MetalSkin ur Always Talking about Emotions and so on .. its not bout that .. im afraid that if im like u .. and i die .. then i know the Truth that There is a God .. then its to late for me .. it doesnt have to do anything with emotions !
its not about emotions its bout Fearing God ! well thats what in our Religion, in our religion its not bout Emotions, Emotions doesnt have anything to do with it .. its just that in islam everyday Fears God .. ! because when u die u will be Judged on everything..
P.S: thank God we dont dance and put music when it comes to Prayers .. there have to be some Respect ! :D
but i dont think Christians Fear God ,, because they All think there goin to Heaven anyways .. So thats why they do all kind of things, Drinking, Sex, Clubs, and they still think that there goin to heaven, even after doin all of these things ... i dont say that im goin to heaven .. because i did mistake myself .. but hopefully i wont repeat them :D
Ellusionist, sorry for the missunderstanding, i wasn't refuring the emotions to your end of the religious side, its something you see on the fundamental christain side. though a fair few religions use emotion as a way to get converts.
Hence why a lot of religions use door knocking. It's very effective. All you have to do is hit on the person who is feeling depressed, down with life, and so forth, and some person comming to your door with sympathy, willing to listen to your problems and holding what emotionaly appears to be an answer, will sometimes be accepted. JW's and Mormans use that technique extreamly well.
True, its not the emotionaly charged environment you see in evangelical and penticostal circles, but all the same its emotional.
As for the evangelical and penticostal, well the pressure on someone who 'isn't a believer' in a large audience when the preacher asks non beleives to come forward and accept, well thats extreamly emotional based. Its not like someone has presented facts and said, well here you go mate, here's the facts, have a think about it and get back to me when you have. its intense preasure with a long sermon charged with emotion. The whole christain message is very emotional.
As for your questions, who created the world? Well show me the fact that shows that god created it? I agree, there is no absolute evidence that evolution is true, though there is a lot of ancidotal evidence (but again its just circumstantial, not direct). But there is no evidence that a god created the world.
Same argument applies to your question about humans. There is no direct proof that a god or evolution created humans. plenty of circumstantal evidence for evolution, but again, no direct proof.
Why are we here? well thats an emotional question that has no logical aspect. If one believs in religion then it is important, if one doesn't it has no reference. so the third question doesn't make sense unless you beleive in religion.
Even if I were to agree that a god must have created the universe and a god must have created humans, why should i beleiev it is your god?
Have a look at my post above where i gave some urls. I know you will not agree with the content, but you havn't even commented on them yet.
The bottom line is I will never be able to convince you of my argument, because you didn't come to your beleifs via logic. and you will never convince me of your arguments because i dont find your arguments logical.
I'm not trying to offend, its just how i see it.
we dont have something Called ur God and my God .. There is only one God .. that is Above all pplQuote:
Even if I were to agree that a god must have created the universe and a god must have created humans, why should i beleiev it is your god?
1- Who Created the World:WITHOUT The Quran Proof, So u wont have any excuses "MetalSkin" :</span>
Let us imagine ourselves standing in a laboratory stocked with beakers and test tubes containing all sorts of chemical compounds. Then suppose an earthquake has just occurred upsetting the shelved vessels, sending their contents spilling onto the laboratory floor. It would be a very strange coincidence indeed to find new life forms generating themselves where none had existed before.
You might say, 'Your analogy didn't account for time - these organisms need time to evolve.' We ask, 'How much time should we have allowed? Was there enough time since the beginning of the universe to allow for their self-induced formation?'
Let's hear from Swiss mathematician Charles Eugene Jai. In an experiment aimed at answering this very question, Jai set out to calculate the probability of the random formation of a single protein molecule. Jai 'helped' the situation by assuming the existence of formative elements, and by selecting a protein consisting of only 2,000 atoms (An average protein might consist of 32,000 atoms or more). Jai also assumed that the protein would consist of only 2 unique formative atoms.
He determined the value of probability by considering the size of the material and the time necessary for the random formation to occur. He calculated that the probability of forming even a simplified protein molecule was approximately 1 in 5 x 10 e+320 !
The size of the material necessary to produce that almost zero probability would have been a sphere with a diameter of approximately 6 x 10 e+176 miles - about 10 e+63 times bigger than the imagined size of the universe. Finally, the time necessary for the molecule to form was 10 e+243 billion years. This was far greater than the supposed age of the universe - only about 2 billion years.
He concluded that the universe was neither old enough, nor big enough to allow for the random formation of even a simple protein molecule. It was impossible for the universe to have created itself, and for life to randomly form. We must then consider another course. <span style=\'color:red\'>There is a Creator who created the universe.
You cannot keep saying that. You are wrong wen you try and say that there is only one God. Christians and Muslims believe that there is only one God and if they both believe there is one God then someone must be wrong. Maybe not wrong but they have different beliefs.Quote:
eLLuSioNiST* we dont have something Called ur God and my God .. There is only one God .. that is Above all ppl
As i have said before Ellusionist, your view of Allah is different to my view of Yaweh (the Christian God) You cannot say there is one God when our religions are totally different. You may believe there is one God and so do I. So it is fair to say 'your God' and 'my God' because we believe in totally different things and wat it says in the qaran about Allah is totally different to what it says about Yaweh in the Bible. Sorry mate
What was said about emotions before is totally true. Metalskins opinion on how people think theyre 'feeling' God or feel God 'touching them' or feel him being with them. It clearly says in the Bible that God is with us and will always be with us since Pentecost.
I feel really strongly about this because alot of my friends who are Christians get this really high feeling at church or worship meetings because of their emotions but when they are out living their lives fail to bring glory to God.
I am not placing judgement upon them just saying that Christians tend to be very emotional when it comes to worship and Christians get very very emotional with music. But thats another topic.
yes i have to agree with you krazee, a lot of christains live their lives on the emotions and tend not to last too long... But that applies to so many different aspects of life. need more than just sand (ie. emotion) to build a foundation upon which you wish to base your life.
let no one get me wrong, I have the highest respect for a lot of people in both the Islamic and Christain faiths, even in the Catholic and other religious groups.
Anyone who chooses to follow a religion and attempts to follow it with all their heart and commitment, who gives up aspects of their life to serve others... well i can't help but have the highest regard for them.
My personnal thoughts on the existance of a god doesn't affect my view of people who are religious.
@ KRAZEEQuote:
You cannot keep saying that. You are wrong wen you try and say that there is only one God. Christians and Muslims believe that there is only one God and if they both believe there is one God then someone must be wrong. Maybe not wrong but they have different beliefs.
As i have said before Ellusionist, your view of Allah is different to my view of Yaweh (the Christian God) You cannot say there is one God when our religions are totally different. You may believe there is one God and so do I. So it is fair to say 'your God' and 'my God' because we believe in totally different things and wat it says in the qaran about Allah is totally different to what it says about Yaweh in the Bible. Sorry mate
Two main Differents between islam and Christian and both have the same God and he's the Same God for all Prophets (Adam, Ibrahim, Noah, etc.):
1- Our Quran Came to correct the interpretation that happened to the Bible.
2- we believe that Jesus was a prophet .. and they believe that he's the son of God (Which is impossible God Cant have a Son or Jesus Cant be God) WHY i'll Say again:
Jesus cannot be son of God or God Himself why check this Links:
Link Here
- And For the Word "Allah:
And even in the movie passion of the christ .. when jesus was crossed he said "Ya Ilahi" thats an aramic word and an arabic word at the same time .. which "Ilahi" its original word is from the word "Allah" .. but in different sentence because he was calling Allah and when i call Allah it becomes "Ya Ilahi" means in English Translation "o Allah"
and thats in Mel Gibson movie the Passion of the Christ ;D
P.S: lol my Lang is Arabic :D
You dont get it do you! LoL
They may both be called 'God' but I dont see how they are. You may post all the 'proof' you want. Theres too many verses in the Bible which state that Yaweh is the 'One and Only God'. Not mentioning any other prophets such as mohammed or gabriel. So i cannot see how they are the same God. And because Jesus says 'God' in another language which translates the same as the word God in arabic doesnt mean our God is the same.
And Jesus is the Son of God. An angel of God appeared to the virgin Mary and told her she was going to have a baby and she was to name it Jesus. The baby Jesus was born and He was and is THE SONE OF GOD :D:D:D
did u Read the link that i posted ?!
Jesus cannot be son of God or God Himself why check this Links:
but that doesnt mean that we hate jesus nooooo dont even think that ... we respect him as all the other prophets may peace be upon them all :D
Link Here
That link is based off a school..no 'proof' at all..it even says 'The Institute of ISLAMIC Information and Education'
-I'm with Krazee
