God

So ... did u read it ... ?! So if anything is based on a school "no Proof" nice lol good thinking ...

This is From There Own Bible :D

We Respect Jesus As a Prophet but not as Son of God .. :D

Conclusion

The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what basis have you come to believe otherwise?

My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented in the Bible. God is One, not three. He is a perfect unity.

If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.

No..I didn't read all that..waste of my time if I don't believe it.. I believe Jesus is the SON of God..and I know this is true..but no way to justify that..so therefore there is no way to justify your beleifs as well

i just justify it .. by ur Own book which is the Bible nothing else :D

That was not justification at all, that was stating facts we already knew? What was the point of that. I told you our Gods are not the same?!

You told me what i already knew and claimed pointless facts.

yeah but these proofs that Jesus is not son of God or that he is God :D

And sorry brother, I wont join you in the Islamic faith because of the vast differences i see in the principles of the 2 religions.

But I urge you to study the religion on Christianity and i will study the Qaran to justify future claims.

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eLLuSioNiST* Posted Today, 10:22 PM
* yeah but these proofs that Jesus is not son of God or that he is God biggrin.gif

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Did you read the part in the Bible where it clearly statesThe Birth of Jesus Christ

Matthew :
18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[c] because he will save his people from their sins.”
22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23“The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[d]–which means, “God with us.”
24When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

Is this not proof that He in fact is the Son of God.

I think it's kind of important to note that "The Bible" is by no means the same between religions. Even the different sects of christianity have different bibles. The Bible is just a compilation of stories, each religion chooses which stories to include and which to leave out.

Read more into the bible ellusionist, and you will understand that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are the same. It is impossible for us to understand how though.

for example if jesus is God how come he dont Know when is Judgement day ? but God Knows ? if they r all one ? this is contradictory

he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30)

Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge And God Have No Limitations

Why is Jesus not son of God again ?

To some Muslims, the term “Son of God” brings up images of a sort of divine being with a goddess wife who together have somehow produced a child. When Christians use the term in reference to Jesus, they immediately assume that the Christians are committing blasphemy by stating that God has participated in some sort of sexual union with another god – a goddess wife.

They say: "the most gracious has betaken a son!" Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it in the skies are about to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, that they attributed a son to the Most Gracious, for it is not consonant with the majesty of the Most Gracious that he should beget a son. (The Qur'an, 5:88-92).

This is naturally a ridiculous scenario and is a false assumption. No where in the Bible does it say that God had relations with anyone to produce a literal son, nor has Christianity taught that God produced a son through any physical act whatsoever. Such a thing is heretical. Nevertheless, the Bible in numerous places calls Jesus the Son of God. But, it does not mean that Jesus is the literal offspring of God.
The Muslims need to as ask what does that term mean, in its historic and biblical context. Instead of imposing upon the biblical term a meaning that is foreign to it, the Muslim should learn what the Bible means by the term and think of it in the context as revealed in the Scriptures where it is used. To not do that would be the same as me taking a term out of the Qur'an, remove it from its Qur'anic context, and applying another meaning to it and then saying what the Qur'an teaches is false. The term “Son of God” is used in different senses in the Bible. But, never does it mean that God has a wife and produces offspring.

Old Testament usage of the term Son of God

The term “son of God” is used in two main ways in the Old Testament. Neither way denotes any physical relation to God. Rather, the references deal with those who under divine obedience to the call of God. It is used of Israel as a nation through the Exodus. Hosea 11:1 says, “When Israel was a youth I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son.”1 It is also used in reference to angels. Job 1:6 says, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.” Also, in Job 38:7 it says, "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" These are in reference to angels who are created beings and in now way implies literal dependency from God.

New Testament usage of the term Son of God

The Term "Son of God" occurs 47 times in the King James New Testament. In reference to Jesus, it is a title as the heavenly, eternal Son who is equal to God the Father (John 5:18-24). It is Jesus who fully reveals the Father (Matt. 11:27). He is the exact representation of the Father (Heb. 1:1-3), He possesses all authority in heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18), and Jesus had glory with the Father before the world was made (John 17:5).

The Muslim is taught from the Qur'an and therefore cannot accept the fact that Jesus is divine. To the Muslim, that is shirk, blasphemy of the worst kind. But believing it doesn't make it so. To the Christian, and according to the Bible, Jesus is the one who alone saves us from our sins. We cannot earn our way to heaven, perform enough good works to please God, or ever be "sincere enough" in repentance to somehow obtain forgiveness from God. Instead, Christianity is a faith of God's great love and sacrifice for His creation. Jesus, the Son of God, is the divine one who fulfilled prophecies, walked on water, healed the sick, and rose from the dead. Only the Son of God can do these things.

Ah and the believers turn against eachother.

Being that I attempted Christianity, I find it kind of insulting that Ellusionist claims the Quran came to "correct" the mistakes in the bible.

ok i will stop right here then .. dont wanna "insult" anybody and besides its not "insulting" its the Truth .. every Christian knows that there bible is interpreted hehe ...back To Graphics lol if i have time :D Peace

Lol. Ellusionist my friend you are a very strange character. If you show quotes and statements from a Muslims point of view, I may say that Islam and Christianity are 2 extremely different religions, and you choose to show examples on why Jesus and God are not one in the same from the Qaran isnt it only fair that the Qaran will oppose the idea? Thats ridiculous that you would post that stuff.

And by quoting those Bible verses, they are meaningless to you. You do not have Faith in this religion, you do not believe that Jesus is God's Son so refrain from comment. If you dont believe that Jesus is God's Son do not say that we have the same God and that there is only one God and we worship it. We do not have the same God and you are giving reasons to that yourself. :D

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Originally posted by eLLuSioNiST@Apr 19 2005, 06:42 AM
This is From There Own Bible :D
We Respect Jesus As a Prophet but not as Son of God .. :D

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Thats from their own Bible?..theres only ONE Bible (in general) and the Islamic Faith respects Jesus as a prophet..which isn't true

The Christian Faith respects Jesus as the Son of God..totally different..so therefore we have different Gods..in your opinion..I only have ONE God..no other..because there is no other God..and please don't try and tell me otherwise..because its not the Truth

ok guys .. eveyrbody is gonna know the Truth .. when they Die .. thats the Easy way to know .. :D

lol i just noticed i was singing this Song Yesterday while i was walking in collage "oh baby baby its a world world" lol and my friend noticed and he told do u know Cat Stevens Convert to Islam .. im like What ur Kidding i know its a old know lol ! but it was a surprise to me lol :D

"I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me."



that is because he was down on earth as a human. yes, a full fledged human.

so if he's humen he cant know the future and cant know when is judgement day .. and iif he's not Humen he would know the Future and when is judgement day... is that what ur Saying lol nice .. thats so logical

i still Go with Cat Stevens lol :D

Elusionist, the problem your encountering is your using your religious doctrine and teachings to analyse another religion. If you confront a beleiver in the other religion and try and show them the error of their ways by using your own religious texts, then you will get no where, specialy if the other religious faith declares that there is only one true faith, their own. If you then decide to try to use their religious texts against them, without a proper understanding of the quotes your using, the context from which they come from, or a complete understanding of their doctrine, then your only going to end up in argument.

Personaly I find nothing wrong with any religious claims, no matter how rediculous to a logical mind, if they claim that their god is Omnipotent. If they are right, who is it for us to limit the power of their god when part of their beleif systems is that their god is omnipotent.

So saying that a virgin birth is nonsensical and that the idea of a God having a son is crazy, is only valid from your point of view. I could say the same thing about the idea of God using a messenger (angel) to only tell only one person from all the people in the world, what the truth is. To a scientific mind it doesn't sound logical, and the lack of proof other than the word of the person who had these visits make it a very biased beleif without proof.

But I dont use these arguments because in the scope of your beleif system, reason is made for such events. It's all a part of the beleif system.

That is why I only ever ask for proof that the beleif system you or someone else beleives is real, i don't question the logic of individual events in the beleif system.

man i showed from the bible ... i didnt bring anything from our Book !

i just showed them the contradictory in the bible ..

i bought nothing from my Religion..

lol look at this i just founded:

lol they change there book when ever they want thats why so many thing in the bible r deleted ! .. lol that why the interpretation is goin on if things they dont like they remove if thing they do like they leave !!

II. A Muslim attempt to find Christians to admit "Allah" is in the Bible:
The Scofield reference Bible argument:

Lol i like it when they Say "Now you see Allah! Now you don’t", it tricks the reader into thinking there is some conspiracy going on" Mowahahahaha what a lame excuse

Scofield does not use the word "Allah", but "Elah" and "Alah" <=== wow what a big Diff how Can This Be Mowahhahahha Again .. Plus Elah in Arabic Mean Allaah Means God

then they say:

it is obvious that the consensus of modern scholarship disagreed with Scofield’s opinion and for this reason, removed it from the revised edition. It is very unlikely they were thinking of Islam at all when they chose to remove the comments.

The original Scofield reference Bible:

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bibl...-scofielda.jpg

Here is a close up of the original section from above:

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bibl...elda-close.jpg

The New Scofield reference Bible:

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bibl...-scofieldb.jpg

I&#39;m sorry Illusionist but your simplifying something that you dont understand.

I&#39;ve googled and found tonnes of stuff that says your religious texts are not perfect and that they have contriditions (from memory te clearest one was the creation of man, once says from dust, another says from blood, and yet another says from nothing). The argument in the web page was that if the text is perfect then it cannot contain contraditions, and then went on to a whole heap of other claims.

I don&#39;t post such stuff though, if i can avoid it, because I know I dont have a proper understanding of your religious texts, the history of your religion, current teaching trends, idiology differences between different groups, etc.

What your finding in your searches is not as simple as it reads when you read it and to a christain, specialy one well versed in this subject, it only appears as though your throwing up intangible arguments that have no substance. Just as i&#39;m sure you felt the same way when i mentioned the stuf about the creation of man.

If your a beliver in a religious text/document/etc, then outside questioning of the authenticity of the text/document/etc will not be openly analysed. Which I have seen happen in here over and over again.

The reason is because the religious beleif teaches that the text/document/etc is fact and centuries of study and thought has gone into proving why that is the case. And a believer of said religous faith takes all this in and beleives it, often without question. Someone questioning the authenticity of such texts from outside is often met with increduality if not hostility.

So I recommend not using google to try and argue your point using the religious texts of the persion your having the discussion with. It will only frustrate them because of your lack of understanding about the subject and will only frustrate you becuase you wont be able to understand why they cant understand what your posting.

(from memory te clearest one was the creation of man, once says from dust, another says from blood, and yet another says from nothing).

becuase u ddint understand this .. that r the steps of how man was created this is no Contradictory lol

that mean u dont understand the Quran Well .. hehe :D

what it means is .. when God Created Earth .. then he created man for the dust of Earth .. then when God put a soul in Adam .. he had blood and so on and so on .. its steps lol

Damn no i relize that they dont know nothing lol bout Our Book lol &#33;

Thats The Diff between u And Scholars that studied there hole life to this .. they know how To Translate it .. but ur taking the surface only ur not taking the deep content in it

i still go with Cat Stevens lol :D

that is what i said Illusionist. I actualy stated that I dont like using these arguments because I dont know your religious texts. Have another read of my post and you will see this is the point I am trying to make.

I am an outsider of your religion, thus if i make any commentary on your religious texts about ambiguity, then you will haev an immediate answer for me that to you sounds logical and is taught within your religion. However as an outsider it may sound like your making excuses.

The same goes for you doing the same to Christianity. Your an outsider using google to find arguments when you dont comprehend the context, the teachings and theology behind it. Someone or some texts may have given you ideas on what are good arguments, but for someone in christianity, they will just see you as someone who has no idea what your talking about. Their responses to you will sound like excuses, just like yours sound to me.

This is why i dont argue scripture/texts because there is no point. I would recommend that you refain from these arguments as well.

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I am an outsider of your religion, thus if i make any commentary on your religious texts about ambiguity, then you will haev an immediate answer for me that to you sounds logical and is taught within your religion. However as an outsider it may sound like your making excuses.

The same goes for you doing the same to Christianity. Your an outsider using google to find arguments when you dont comprehend the context, the teachings and theology behind it. Someone or some texts may have given you ideas on what are good arguments, but for someone in christianity, they will just see you as someone who has no idea what your talking about. Their responses to you will sound like excuses, just like yours sound to me.

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lol so i wonder why islam is the Fastest Growing Religion in the World now and many Ppl Converting to Islam .. is it Becuase They R Searching and trying to Find the Truth .. instead of saying oh i was Raised like and im lazy to search.. oh no wait let me go Have Sex and drink and Kill Ppl .. then jesus well Still forgive even i fucked as many Grls as i like im Still Goin to heaven lol hehe :D

lol plz Make Sense and Logic &#33; :D

ok i refain and go with Cat stevens/Yousuf Islam lo0l :D

and I use the NIV version..never heard of that Bible in my life...

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and I use the NIV version..never heard of that Bible in my life...

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Damn Man how Many Bibels u Guys Have .. lol .. and everyone says diff thing .. thank God we only Have one ...

Yes ellusionist You can go a f*** as many girls as you want and you can murder and kill and do whatever you want but there is still the Grace from God and the love of Jesus Christ that saves you from eternal life in hell.

So what makes your religion more &#39;truthful&#39; than mine?
Islam is the fastest spreading religion on 3rd world countries, not much liked in Australia or America though.
Yes i already know youre going to post all these &#39;proofs&#39; on me now but i dont care.

You have your religion and i have mine. If i was to google search on Islam and the inconsistences in the Quran im sure i would find as many on Islam as you would on Christianity.

And because we have many Bibles means nothing. There is one Bible, with many translations however the Mormons chose to add more to their Bible which is incorrect. There are many discrepancies because of the age of the Bible and the many translations.

how come we dont have many Translations like ur Bible &#33; lol

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Islam is the fastest spreading religion on 3rd world countries

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hell no .. lol in the WORLD i SAid not 3rd of The WORLD and it was on CNN SON :D

hmm... i think materialism and either Amway or Avon is the fastest growing religion. China has Avon now even&#33;

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Originally posted by eLLuSioNiST@Apr 19 2005, 08:41 PM
so if he&#39;s humen he cant know the future and cant know when is judgement day .. and iif he&#39;s not Humen he would know the Future and when is judgement day... is that what ur Saying lol nice .. thats so logical

i still Go with Cat Stevens lol :D

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no, God sent Jesus down to earth to show us how much he loved us.

What about the almighty Ronald McDonald? Or perhaps thy lord and saviour Coke? Lol.

I think I have a pretty good sense of what kind of person ellusionist is. Just by looking at the amount of laughing he does at everyone else&#39;s point of view.

nah im used of luaghing everytime not just on a point of view or to make fun of .. its just im like that hehe :D

i must tell u guys read why did cat stevens convert into islam its wonderful &#33; by his words .. there is no harm in reading :D

Link here

Why dont you read something useful like the Bible. Maybe you might get your facts right and learn something for a while :D

because did u read the why the convertion happened then ill tell u why :D

because Cat Stevens Tried all Religions and he was at 1st heavy christian .. and he ended up with islam :D

Thats one person who noone in this day and age should remember&#33; His first name is CAT - Who names their son Cat?

There are many people who were first Christian but went to Islam, what is looking at that &#39;proof&#39; going to do for me? NOTHING :D:D:D:D

as u like :D

No meaning to be rude in that but your showing me all these facts that were written from a Muslims point of view, which makes no sense to me why i should read it. If a Christian wrote them and i wouldnt find a reason why they would, then i might consider their opinions because we are of the same faiths and beliefs. Im sorry i just couldnt take anymore of your facts because they were all simply against Christianity.

no man .. these proofs r for logic proofs .. God Cant have a Son ... God is far exalted is He above having a son.. Jesus was a Humen he eats, Sleeps, etc. .. God Dont need a Son .. Jesus is not All knowing because he&#39;s a humen like us .. but God Sent him as a Prophet like Other Prophets &#33; logically man &#33;

plus There are so many Bibles (like 65 different Bibles, who knows maybe more) and there are so many people who interpret the Bible and all of them have different sayings or Translations which leads to more interpretations ... &#33;

Go Search and find out the Truth Dont just Say "makes no sense to me why i should read it"

My Friend is Christian and when i showed him these proofs he started thinking about LOGIC .. and he&#39;s searching now for the Truth .. he didnt say Like u "it makes no Sense" maybe becuase he is more mature than u .. u r still young .. who knows &#33;

P.S: Why Dont u Hear it From a Christian Guy Like Cat Stevens i told u Read his Link from a Christian Point of View &#33;&#33;

You saying Jesus is not God&#39;s Son because ur a muslim, you dont understand because your not of the same Faith. You have no idea about Christianity, why? Because ur a muslim and have ur views about God and have a completely different perspective compared to mine. Theres no point going any further because I will not convert or choose to even think about thinking otherwise :D Thanks anyway but I will not read anymore of ur stupid &#39;proof&#39;s.

Go tell Metalskin