Morality

I've been seeing a trend in both the showcase and battle arena's. The more disturbing of which, is without a doubt the battle forum.

People are stealing artwork, slapping on a coat of Overlay effect, a couple lines of text, and calling it their own. It seems to happen alot in the theme battles, people take someone elses painting or vector art and color splash it and submit. This is absolutely deplorable. What giant brass balls these people must have to do basically none of the work and take all of the credit.

It's not like they're using another persons work as a reference, or for ideas. no, it's an exact duplicate with a few minor changes to make it looks more "stylish"

This kind of behaviour needs to stop. It's dishonest, it's illegal, and it's disgusting. It has turned the Battle Arena from a competition of skill and talent, into a game of who has the better google image search skills.


What solution can there be? Well, other than just not using other peoples work (I can't really see that happening)... You could start by giving links to the artwork which you've "borrowed".

Anyone else feel this way?

Im kinda with you, on one of the recent battle entries, i think the guy/gal ripped most of it, but im not sure at all, its just some kinda feeling. I've had these feelings about ripping before and some of them proved to be right after a fev minutes of googlying :D


A Solution could be simply making them feel guilty, Something in the battle topic, or just something.

I know i am guilty of this but how many people actually use there own material in creating there peice. More often then not the render is someone else's work. And for the themed battles you can't really help no using someone elses because sometimes the theme calls for it. Now I am trying to move away from this myself just because i actually want to get a job based on my work. I really don't think it is that big of a deal in the showcase since most of the people here in the forums are hobbyists. In the battlegrounds they should be able to rip another picture slash render that is not already been edited for another piece on another forum. Anyways thats all I have to say on the matter.

Its a gray area, its hard to say for sure what's exactly right and wrong. If people provide vectors to use, I don't see a big deal about it (ie: gamerenders) - assuming you follow their terms of use policy. If people make renders for the sake of it with no intention to allow other uses to use them I feel that's where the problem arises.

Ideally users should focus more on their own work other than altering renders... Its hard to say though.

I may not have been clear. I'm not talking about the the battles that require you to use a certain render or whatever. I'm talking about themed battles like "ferrari" and someone takes a ferrari picture off google and puts their name on it, changes the color of the car...and then goes on to win the competition because the photographer of the original peice was good.

It happens alot.


CrazyGamer,

http://forums.gfxvoid.com/index.php?showto...indpost&p=39103
The peice I submitted there used the required render. But the photograph of the trains and the flowers were both my own photographs. I even painted in the tear in photohsop. That battle's not the best example, since everyone did a good job of adding their own flare in that one. But as you can see, you don't need to steal work to fit a theme...

My problem isn't with the fact that people use them. it's that people use them almost completely raw. just straight copy paste. But because their source image was so good, they are rewarded for their minimal amount of effort. I think that's wrong. That's why I think you should have to cite your sources, this way when voting people can see what you actually did and didn't do to your peice.


I hope this is all making sense, i've been awake for a very long time...yet again...and everything is very blurry.

I think that is a problem if an experienced user of ps does it though. If a newb does it it should be excusable. Simply because they really don't know any other way. I know I had that problem but I am now stopping that completely and am doing everything myself from scratch. I think once everyone gets to a certain level that is what they should do. Unless of course they are in a themed battle that requires it. But this is just my opinion.

I agree, a requirement of disclosing source images should be implemented. That way it can ruthlessly expose the dishonest ones. Although it is a bit harsh, and if it were up to me, I would let the persons guilt ride them. No one should feel proud of their work if its not theirs.

Yeah, I'll third it. I'm not one for posting much (just dont get the time to do the work :(), but I do like to review and have a gander at what people are up to.

As such I beleive it is important to know if they just did a quick effect on a standard stock with bugger all work or if they actualy added to the artistic process of the work they are presenting as their own.

As such I will third the motion to have links posted showing the stock or render that was used.

i think if its questioned at all... they should send a psd to the admin or a moderator running that comp. if they fail to do so then they are removed from the comp. and maybe more... because ive seen this alot on many a forum... the bigger peices more then sigs tho..

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Originally posted by NxtDay@1 Hour Ago
i think if its questioned at all... they should send a psd to the admin or a moderator running that comp. if they fail to do so then they are removed from the comp. and maybe more...* because ive seen this alot on many a forum... the bigger peices more then sigs tho..

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Nah, I don't think it needs to be that harsh.

Like metalskin said though, I think you should provide links to any stock art you used.

i agree 100% with all this.
most people are using other peoples brushes, others art and stock pictures, others text and so forth. putting them all together and calling it there art.
but you do have to see that most people will not continue to do art in the future, few do. i know i was born an artist will die an artist. but some do not have the drive inside to create everything on there own.

when i buy my new computer in less than a year i am also buying a scanner, and a tablet.

i know its frustrating to see so many come to this community without the passion of art and just to make something that looks nice but i tell you the many that do here feel the same frustration. but thats all we can do, we cannot get mad at people for not being an artist we can just try to take it in and live with it.

and yes it would be nice to try and stop all this ripping and the lazyness of people here but we would lose alot of members in the process and i think were looking to gain, not lose.

Well I haven't done much digital art lately so I haven't noticed this, but if it is happening it needs to stop. Not only is it not a fair competition when these are used, but it's also stealing. In my opinion not only should your competitors have a right to be pissed at you, but also those whose works you're ripping.

Personally I don't have to worry about this, as I don't use game renders, anime, etc. The only renders I use that aren't made by myself are rather obvious because they're photos of people, cars, guitars, etc. Even these I try to not use as much as my style is more abstract.


Maybe for official comps and ladder comps links to any stock work should be required with the submission?

You know what though. I am with madd. And now that I know how everything will be my own. I think the major problem is the level of people in here. Most of the people either don't know how or don't want to take the time. So there isn't really much we can do about it. Me though I am going to stick with art thoughout my life.

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Originally posted by MaDD@7 Hours Ago
i agree 100% with all this.
most people are using other peoples brushes, others art and stock pictures, others text and so forth. putting them all together and calling it there art.
but you do have to see that most people will not continue to do art in the future, few do. i know i was born an artist will die an artist. but some do not have the drive inside to create everything on there own.

when i buy my new computer in less than a year i am also buying a scanner, and a tablet.

i know its frustrating to see so many come to this community without the passion of art and just to make something that looks nice but i tell you the many that do here feel the same frustration. but thats all we can do, we cannot get mad at people for not being an artist we can just try to take it in and live with it.

and yes it would be nice to try and stop all this ripping and the lazyness of people here but we would lose alot of members in the process and i think were looking to gain, not lose.

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You know, using other artists' brushes and stock pictures are similar to using Photoshop, Maya, Terragen, or even Paint. These programs, along with brushes and stock pictures are made for people like us to put things together and create "art". Where do you draw the line between what's acceptable and what's not? You paid Adobe (well, you know what I mean) for a program that they wrote to aid you in the creation of "art". What's the difference between using Photoshop to make a signature and using somebody else's brushes to make a signature?

The difference is that if you paid Adobe then it is legit. The only problem is when other people use others brushes and don't give credit. But what about dev. art. Don't they give away brushes for others to use. That basically makes it ok imo.

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Originally posted by CrazyGamer@7 Minutes Ago
The difference is that if you paid Adobe then it is legit. The only problem is when other people use others brushes and don't give credit. But what about dev. art. Don't they give away brushes for others to use. That basically makes it ok imo.

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Well, some of us paid Adobe. Most downloadable brushes on the internet were created for people like us, and most of them are free for use. The point is, you can't do everything yourself.

In fact no digital artist really ever does everything himself if you wanna get technical about it.

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Originally posted by XRedBlazeX@2 Hours Ago
You know, using other artists' brushes and stock pictures are similar to using Photoshop, Maya, Terragen, or even Paint. These programs, along with brushes and stock pictures are made for people like us to put things together and create "art". Where do you draw the line between what's acceptable and what's not? You paid Adobe (well, you know what I mean) for a program that they wrote to aid you in the creation of "art". What's the difference between using Photoshop to make a signature and using somebody else's brushes to make a signature?

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you cant use other peoples brushs on a peice and sell it its illegal.
and adobe has not much to do with this, i paid for my paper and pen but am i allowed to trace somthing and call it my art. i dont think so.

If people are giving away brushes then wtf is the harm in using them. If there is no copyright attached then if you use it and call it yours, your claim is 100% legit legally. Now morally thats another question. If you think that using something that someone else made is not right, well then don't use any digital art producing programs. Cus those were made groups of people. And without it you wouldn't be able to do much digital now would you. Well and then you will go on to argue that you pay some of these compaanies for the rights and yes that is true. But what about pirated software. Also if a brush is made by an artist and then given away to make other artists job easier then I really don't see the harm. The ONLY problem I have is with people using others renders. Thats all.

using other peoples brushes I personaly don't see as an issue, the same as using renders/stock based on the theme that you wish to go with.

For example, you may choose to use a render of Sonic Hedgehog cause you want to do a Nintendo based peice of artwork. I wouldn't expect you to do it all from scratch, and find it reasonable to take individual renders to assist in crafting what it is you wish to do.

This happens in the art world as well, there are artists who take other peoples art work and transform them into something else as part of thier art. Same as people re-recording old songs, or re-mixing an old song. Of course it's not as 'pure' as doing something from scratch, but it still has artistic merit.

The problem is where someone finds a peice that they like, add an effect (eg plastic or water effect) and thats it. Maybe a bit of hue/sat change, and then call it their own work. This is worse if they don't state that they copied someone elses work to produce theirs. This is especialy true if the work copied was an abstract or 3d render and so forth, because it's not obvious that the work is copied.

This applies to brushes as well as some brushes are basic, while others are art in their own right. Some people complain about some of the tech brushes, others complain about some of the stamps.

The problem is a lot of this is subjective and cannot be measured, unless you wish to get very technical about it. I think the bottom line is we follow what is accepted at the major gfx sites, if you say your work is original then you cannot have used any third party render/stock (and i think brush). If it's not original then you must say so and state what you have used that was used, ie. give credit to those who provided what you used. And I would add fonts as well. If everything is standard with the gfx program you use, then fine, otherwise give credit where credit is due.

Wow, you guys totally missed the point. This is not about it being illegal. It's about it being immoral to take credit for other peoples artwork.

And the thing about using photoshop is like using other peoples art...that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard. Everyone knows you're using photoshop or something similar. But more importantly if you take photoshop, and just add your name to the default peices...all you've got is a white image with your name on it. You actually have to be creative and work to get somethign out of it.

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Originally posted by unit_number_43@36 Minutes Ago
Wow, you guys totally missed the point. This is not about it being illegal. It's about it being immoral to take credit for other peoples artwork.

And the thing about using photoshop is like using other peoples art...that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard. Everyone knows you're using photoshop or something similar. But more importantly if you take photoshop, and just add your name to the default peices...all you've got is a white image with your name on it. You actually have to be creative and work to get somethign out of it.

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We were a tad off-topic, I was more of trying to argue that there's nothing wrong with using pre-made brushes and the such. I agreed with your points, but maDD tried to take the whole thing one step too far I feel.

hey I hope my sig doesn't fall in this category :( I used adam's as a reference, but I made it completely from scratch... if you don't like it tell me, 43, and i'll change it ^_^

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Originally posted by MinorThreat@1 Hour Ago
hey I hope my sig doesn't fall in this category :(* I used adam's as a reference, but I made it completely from scratch... if you don't like it tell me, 43, and i'll change it ^_^

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lol, absolutely no problem with that.

I don't want to post any links to examples of what I'm talking about, because i don't want to offend anyone. But sufficed to say that is not what i'm talking about.

I just saw that new sig in another topic. lol. makes me feel proud.

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yeah, i&#39;ve been thinking of making one similar too, but didn&#39;t want to be called a copy cat, now that MinorThreat has gone that path it even makes it more look like a following the crowd reaction if i do it :( lol....

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