Bias voting?

Alright, well I have noticed that lately a lot of people are becoming disgruntled about the voting for competitions here on the Void, people keep saying that people are playing favorites and voting for team members and friends instead of voting for who has the best piece. And to be frank I don't care but it's getting annoying listening to it, some people take all the competitions to seriously here and think they suck if the don't win or that people hate them because they received no votes. I'd like to suggest that maybe with KOTH and SOTW and various other competitions that we start making the battle anonymous doing it all through PM and not telling people what entry belongs to which person in hopes that this will cut down on the "bias" voting that everyone is QQing about these days...Just a thought, I figured come up with a solution sooner than later before we have another Blood god situation on our hands...

This topic main goes out to Rad, DM, Nutter and Kritez.

Since they host most the battles and such.

Input and discussion is encourage only if you have a valid point to make please don't just flood "OOOO I LIKE DIS IDEA YOOOOO!" in this topic...


Love,

Fork

I have been seeing what you are talking about..

Yeah, its a good point, and also i think general bias aswell as just with the voting is becoming a problem!

If that's true, then someone is doing something wrong.

Either ride people or get good enough to have them ride you, either ways if you aren't winning then you aren't good enough.

it's my 2cents.

Well Rad's the one that takes care of SOTW and KOTH. It sounds like more work, but with some help from the other mods it sounds like a positive change to me.

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Originally Posted by Hoshiko

Well Rad's the one that takes care of SOTW and KOTH. It sounds like more work, but with some help from the other mods it sounds like a positive change to me.

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In the end it comes down to... A. Do the extra work, or B. Listen to people gripe, moan and complain.

So, we'll see what happens. I mean shit I'd do all the darn work for Rad if it meant no more complaining.

I support this but it would be hard to incorporate to SOTW. At first we would have to drop the text rule and that would make it easier to enter a riped signature. But we could change it so you must include a text saying for example "GFXVoid SOTW 248" in your entry. The submitting would also be a problem, if they're posted in an entry thread everyone may see who submitted which signature and the whole anonymity idea would be lost. And if they were to be sent to me via pm's it would only be messy for me to keep track on all the entries. But I could write them down in a document after I've received each of the entries. Could work.

Then we have the KOTH, same problem as the previous, keeping track of all the entries. Also since no names will be displayed you wouldn't know who is the king till he lost. The last thing might not be a problem tho, but since almost all of the entries are premades most of the members already know who made that specific signature. So the anonymity would be made then.

For other battles it wouldn't be any problems with no names for the poll and on the art pieces.

That's my thoughts.

I honestly don't think there is any bias in voting. It may seems unnatural that the same people keep winning, but you have to consider that there is a reason for that. They most of the time are good signature makers. That is why they win in the first place.

Pleace tell me if/why I'm wrong, would love to hear some reasons.

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Originally Posted by Applejuice

I honestly don't think there is any bias in voting. It may seems unnatural that the same people keep winning, but you have to consider that there is a reason for that. They most of the time are good signature makers. That is why they win in the first place.

Pleace tell me if/why I'm wrong, would love to hear some reasons.

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I don't think the voting is biased either Applej, it's the fact that people are complaining about bias that's the problem. I mean, it's not fair to the people who win at all...

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Originally Posted by RadillacVIII

I support this but it would be hard to incorporate to SOTW. At first we would have to drop the text rule and that would make it easier to enter a riped signature. But we could change it so you must include a text saying for example "GFXVoid SOTW 248" in your entry. The submitting would also be a problem, if they're posted in an entry thread everyone may see who submitted which signature and the whole anonymity idea would be lost. And if they were to be sent to me via pm's it would only be messy for me to keep track on all the entries. But I could write them down in a document after I've received each of the entries. Could work.

Then we have the KOTH, same problem as the previous, keeping track of all the entries. Also since no names will be displayed you wouldn't know who is the king till he lost. The last thing might not be a problem tho, but since almost all of the entries are premades most of the members already know who made that specific signature. So the anonymity would be made then.

For other battles it wouldn't be any problems with no names for the poll and on the art pieces.

That's my thoughts.

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I think your idea for SOTW would work really well. I don't think KOTH needs to be anonymous, that's just too much work for you since the entries would be non-stop and like you said most people use stuff they've already shown on the site. :/

I haven't really seen any bias, if anything just a bias towards certain styles, but I haven't been here long. But I'm sure some does exist, I've never heard of any human voting that didn't have certain biases, so best to do what you can to get rid of it. =D

Rad good idea on sotw, I would like to see that happen, don't know why i nthe past we didn't think to put the SOTW # on it to keep rippers off.

I don't feel though that KOTH would be as worth it as sotw, the entries go by daily an not weekly, so it would be a lot harder to keep track of.

As appleJ said I see great taggers an I see some alrights an than I see some novice, chances are the great will win out over the novice or good tag any day. Not a bad idea though so as to stop criers or suspicious feelings.

Issue is, even with annonoymous entrys in the SOTW, some people have easily recognisable styles.

Perhaps we ought to set up a poll to see who actually thinks the voting is bias or not

Did I miss a major arguement or something here? I havn't noticed any whining or complaining and I pretty much read every single post that gets made here lol.

I think that the voting is biased. To believe otherwise seems...unreal. Rarely do I see a signature in SOTW or KOTH that I actually thought should have won, but it sure got a lot of votes.

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As appleJ said I see great taggers an I see some alrights an than I see some novice, chances are the great will win out over the novice or good tag any day. Not a bad idea though so as to stop criers or suspicious feelings.

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And I often see "alrights", "good", and "novice" tags that are better than or equal to those "great" tags and just flat out lose for some reason. What makes a great tag to you other than your own opinion? That was biased thinking right there, and no one was voting on anything. Yes, it's easy to call someone a crier or claim that they have suspicious feelings, but what do you expect?

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Perhaps we ought to set up a poll to see who actually thinks the voting is bias or not

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I don't think this will solve anything at all. Even if it concluded that a majority of users here believed that the voting was biased, wouldn't it be easier to simply say that majority of them are being biased on the subject as a whole?Would anything be done at all?

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Originally Posted by TRUeLM

I think that the voting is biased. To believe otherwise seems...unreal. Rarely do I see a signature in SOTW or KOTH that I actually thought should have won, but it sure got a lot of votes.



And I often see "alrights", "good", and "novice" tags that are better than or equal to those "great" tags and just flat out lose for some reason. What makes a great tag to you other than your own opinion? That was biased thinking right there, and no one was voting on anything. Yes, it's easy to call someone a crier or claim that they have suspicious feelings, but what do you expect?



I don't think this will solve anything at all. Even if it concluded that a majority of users here believed that the voting was biased, wouldn't it be easier to simply say that majority of them are being biased on the subject as a whole?Would anything be done at all?

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Obviously people's opinion will affect their descision. You don't intend to vote purely on he/she who applied the rule of thirds the best and making sure that any sort of dividing of the signature is done exactly in the golden section. Oh and lets not forget about lines and flow and lighting.

Sure these things are important but even if someone manages to stick to all the "rules" it's no guarantee for an eyepleasing tag. If someone gets lots of votes week afther week then perhaps people just like the style that person uses and think it's superior to other entries. People will always disagree but that's how democracy works.

Also if people really are just voting for people they like then I highly doubt hiding names will work. As mentioned above some people here have very recognisable styles.

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Originally Posted by silent_assasin

Issue is, even with annonoymous entrys in the SOTW, some people have easily recognisable styles.

Perhaps we ought to set up a poll to see who actually thinks the voting is bias or not

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the voting in the poll would probably be bias

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Obviously people's opinion will affect their descision. You don't intend to vote purely on he/she who applied the rule of thirds the best and making sure that any sort of dividing of the signature is done exactly in the golden section. Oh and lets not forget about lines and flow and lighting.

Sure these things are important but even if someone manages to stick to all the "rules" it's no guarantee for an eyepleasing tag. If someone gets lots of votes week afther week then perhaps people just like the style that person uses and think it's superior to other entries. People will always disagree but that's how democracy works.

Also if people really are just voting for people they like then I highly doubt hiding names will work. As mentioned above some people here have very recognisable styles.

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This is my point exactly. To say that the voting is not biased is unrealistic.

what did bloodgod do?

And on the voting part, it would help to take out names on the poll, but sometimes you can tell who made a piece just by the styles, I think people vote fairly most of they time but i can see what you mean by this.

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Originally Posted by TRUeLM

This is my point exactly. To say that the voting is not biased is unrealistic.

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It is, but I was also trying to say that it beeing biased is not a bad thing. Without opinions there would be no sotw voting as 1 person could just inspect all the entries with a checklist.

Okay...last time I checked, this was about people thinking that others were just voting for friends or teammates.
Voting in general is biased because it's based on what you like and what you think looks good in a tag. But that wasn't what this was about at all. >_>

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Originally Posted by Hoshiko

Okay...last time I checked, this was about people thinking that others were just voting for friends or teammates.
Voting in general is biased because it's based on what you like and what you think looks good in a tag. But that wasn't what this was about at all. >_>

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Whoops sorry, went offtopic... I'll stay outta this from now on because as I said before I'm not aware of what happened prior to this thread.

I guess this problem can't be totally fixed.
I mean I like Rad's solution for the sotw and in some cases it will work.
But for I'll take Linda for example:
She has her own style and it will always be recognized. I mean if her tag doesn't contains her name I'll still know that it's from her.
And it's the same with other people like Kritez, Rad, Schultz....
I think we just need to accept that people don't always vote for "the best tag" but go for their friend. Don't take it too serious... Maybe it's not always fair, but just deal with it.

Ive recognized this.... its been going on for ages.

Example... in my past 10 1v1 battles, the same person has voted against me atleast 9 of them... you think thats because my tag was worse?? obviously not, i won those battles... its because they dont want me to win.

Now im not one to complain or bitch... considering im the leader of MM and a SS winner... it obviously isnt really destroying my career... it just kinda upsetting on a more personal level, lol.

Im not gonna state any names, but their are people on this site who dont like certain people, or certain teams... therefore it sways their votes.

THE ENTIRE SITE has a bias for TOPAZ. lol... lets be honest.. a lot of us like it.. Im not the biggest topaz fan, but i use it in tags.

Ive seen an overtopaz sig beat and EQUALLY GOOD untopazed sig on this site 100 times. Its disappointing, but it happens.

As far as people voting for teammates. I try not to vote just because someone is my teammate. But at the same time you dont want to cause bad feelings between you and your teammates. So you just have to hope that your teammates sig is better! lol.

To make anonymity among battles WOULDNT be hard as far as the SS goes (which will be up soon for those who are wondering where the hell it is, lol). People will know WHO is battling WHO. But i dont have to include the names in the threads. And the SS doesnt require Names on your tag anyways... so i could do that if i wanted.

But lets be honest... CS4pro is right.... people are gonna recognize styles. EVERYYYONEEEE knows what a Radillac tag looks like.... everyone knows what a Andrew tag looks like..... everyone knows what a cs4pro tag looks like.... the list goes on and on. There are household names on this site. People know what their tags look like. Plan and simple.

As far as team battles... they will never be anonymous.

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Originally Posted by Kritez

Ive recognized this.... its been going on for ages.

Example... in my past 10 1v1 battles, the same person has voted against me atleast 9 of them... you think thats because my tag was worse?? obviously not, i won those battles... its because they dont want me to win.

Now im not one to complain or bitch... considering im the leader of MM and a SS winner... it obviously isnt really destroying my career... it just kinda upsetting on a more personal level, lol.

Im not gonna state any names, but their are people on this site who dont like certain people, or certain teams... therefore it sways their votes.

THE ENTIRE SITE has a bias for TOPAZ. lol... lets be honest.. a lot of us like it.. Im not the biggest topaz fan, but i use it in tags.

Ive seen an overtopaz sig beat and EQUALLY GOOD untopazed sig on this site 100 times. Its disappointing, but it happens.

As far as people voting for teammates. I try not to vote just because someone is my teammate. But at the same time you dont want to cause bad feelings between you and your teammates. So you just have to hope that your teammates sig is better! lol.

To make anonymity among battles WOULDNT be hard as far as the SS goes (which will be up soon for those who are wondering where the hell it is, lol). People will know WHO is battling WHO. But i dont have to include the names in the threads. And the SS doesnt require Names on your tag anyways... so i could do that if i wanted.

But lets be honest... CS4pro is right.... people are gonna recognize styles. EVERYYYONEEEE knows what a Radillac tag looks like.... everyone knows what a Andrew tag looks like..... everyone knows what a cs4pro tag looks like.... the list goes on and on. There are household names on this site. People know what their tags look like. Plan and simple.

As far as team battles... they will never be anonymous.

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This.

Honestly, first off let me get this off my chest I don't really care about the whole voting issue. NO MATTER what you really do its going to be bias if you use peoples names. The only way to make it unbiased would be to take away names from voting. But even then CS4Pro is right you can also notice peoples styles a lot. So, that also means voting is going to be bias. This means there really is no way to stop it. The only solution would really be to get people not from this site that do not know any of the people and have them vote for something, but the chances of that ever happening are pretty much zero. SO, unless pretty much anyone can think about any other ideas its going to be bias.

I know this sounds like a dick statement, but its the truth. There really isn't a reasonable way to fix this situation. Voting will always be bias.

its easy.. just make a tag that is a lot better than the other so even if their friends vote for them you still win.

or you can become friends with everyone on this site.

option 1 is easier for me personally and if you have a fear of losing then dont battle cause it happens

All these people saying that you can't stop the bias without names because people will still know styles are kind of right, but also kind of silly. Because sometimes people wont know whose style belongs to whom. And sometimes the voter will have no idea how to tell the style apart, they'll just be trying to vote for who they like best. Yes, sometimes people will recognize styles, but not everyone will, and not all the time.

So isn't it best to eliminate bias where you can? Instead of saying, "well, we can never get rid of it all the way, so don't bother changing anything."

Taking names off wont fix everything, but it will surely help, so why not do it? And if everyone knows you made a certain sig with or without your name, because all your sigs look the same, perhaps it's time to try something a little more creative... O.o

I've decided to give the Anonym Voting a try for this weeks SOTW :)

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Originally Posted by Fur

Honestly, first off let me get this off my chest I don't really care about the whole voting issue. NO MATTER what you really do its going to be bias if you use peoples names. The only way to make it unbiased would be to take away names from voting. But even then CS4Pro is right you can also notice peoples styles a lot. So, that also means voting is going to be bias. This means there really is no way to stop it. The only solution would really be to get people not from this site that do not know any of the people and have them vote for something, but the chances of that ever happening are pretty much zero. SO, unless pretty much anyone can think about any other ideas its going to be bias.

I know this sounds like a dick statement, but its the truth. There really isn't a reasonable way to fix this situation. Voting will always be bias.

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My feelings exactly, you know me all to well. I'm just sick of the complaining.

Unfortunately people will always have a bit of a Bias towards some things, even if it's an art style, a member, or a theme and this does display itself on the forum. I do however think that it really is rather selfish for people to use their votes in a matter to "improve" their chances of winning a minor comp like a SoTW or KoTH. It does not, and I repeat, DOES NOT show that you are a good artist in the end, and it's the ones that continually win and fairly win that prove their worth.

I've been associated with a SoTW comp on another forum. It was run differently with the use of PMs and secret entries. Even during the comp we all knew there was bias because people leaked out who's sig is who's to their friends, but there's nothing you can do to prove that they actually did since we are not moderators of AIM, MSN, or other such chat programs.

After the comp ran for over 100 weeks, I had managed to win a good 15 or so comps, becoming the highest winning artist on that forum. The truth is that even after all those wins and seeing some of my friends win several times, it hasn't changed much in the long run. You eventually learn that a win doesn't show how good of an artist you really are. It doesn't make you better, it just means people appreciate 'that' art piece. Take a look at many members on this forum and you will notice that several of them don't enter many comps but they are what I would believe better artist then someone with 15 or so wins up his sleeve.

Basically what I'm saying is that you guys might as well vote fairly and really choose the best sig in the selection because come 2 weeks later no one is really gonna care who that winner was. Now I've been at the top, I've looked down, and in all honestly the look from below is alot better because you have things that you can aspire to. You know that any compliments and wins you get are from your own hard work and dedication.

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Originally Posted by Nutter

Unfortunately people will always have a bit of a Bias towards some things, even if it's an art style, a member, or a theme and this does display itself on the forum. I do however think that it really is rather selfish for people to use their votes in a matter to "improve" their chances of winning a minor comp like a SoTW or KoTH. It does not, and I repeat, DOES NOT show that you are a good artist in the end, and it's the ones that continually win and fairly win that prove their worth.

I've been associated with a SoTW comp on another forum. It was run differently with the use of PMs and secret entries. Even during the comp we all knew there was bias because people leaked out who's sig is who's to their friends, but there's nothing you can do to prove that they actually did since we are not moderators of AIM, MSN, or other such chat programs.

After the comp ran for over 100 weeks, I had managed to win a good 15 or so comps, becoming the highest winning artist on that forum. The truth is that even after all those wins and seeing some of my friends win several times, it hasn't changed much in the long run. You eventually learn that a win doesn't show how good of an artist you really are. It doesn't make you better, it just means people appreciate 'that' art piece. Take a look at many members on this forum and you will notice that several of them don't enter many comps but they are what I would believe better artist then someone with 15 or so wins up his sleeve.

Basically what I'm saying is that you guys might as well vote fairly and really choose the best sig in the selection because come 2 weeks later no one is really gonna care who that winner was. Now I've been at the top, I've looked down, and in all honestly the look from below is alot better because you have things that you can aspire to. You know that any compliments and wins you get are from your own hard work and dedication.

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I agree with this, I'd like to thank Rad, Kritez and Nut bag for taking the time to review and respond to this thread.

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Originally Posted by Nutter

I've been associated with a SoTW comp on another forum. It was run differently with the use of PMs and secret entries. Even during the comp we all knew there was bias because people leaked out who's sig is who's to their friends, but there's nothing you can do to prove that they actually did since we are not moderators of AIM, MSN, or other such chat programs.

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Then check this out :) http://www.gfxvoid.com/forums/showth...882#post554882

NP Fork, I'm glad you took the initiative by creating this thread.

np forkie... this has been in my head for a while now. Im glad you decided to say something :)

So yeah, you can say that I vote biased. I do on some level. I most of the time vote for Kritez and Cs4. Simply because I like their style and most of the sigs they make. I would recognize tags from them out of a 1000 tags.

Anyway, I would like to see who I'd vote on (and other people) when we actually don't see the name.

i dont mind them being bias as long as they vote for me... harhar :D
no, but really

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Originally Posted by Hoshiko

Okay...last time I checked, this was about people thinking that others were just voting for friends or teammates.
Voting in general is biased because it's based on what you like and what you think looks good in a tag. But that wasn't what this was about at all. >_>

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i agree with hoshiko. your vote will be bias because you're gonna choose the signature or w/e it is you like. i say lets keep the old sotw rules and just try to be better each week.

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Originally Posted by Hoshiko

Okay...last time I checked, this was about people thinking that others were just voting for friends or teammates.
Voting in general is biased because it's based on what you like and what you think looks good in a tag. But that wasn't what this was about at all. >_>

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+1 to this.